Wagon rebuild

[Fishyweare]

well i've just worked out why my steering wheel is bent forward , and here i was thinking what a great idea as really comfortable to drive with the wheel not sitting right on top of you.
removed hood lining to find a surprise ,the top section of windscreen has been replaced and have also noticed the first beam back were the interior light sits has a bow in it with some cardboard packed between it must of been one hell of a impact.
rest of roof is good but when i got the car i would say it originally had a full pack rack on like the one thats on it now as the back corner sections were damaged from i'd say a bloody big load .
imagining a tree being lobbed onto the roof lol. timberrrrr

[bumper]

Good to see you on the forum mate, no rubber in the kit for the rear of the guard and the body, think i used just flat rubber on my first wagon

[Craig Allardyce]

Fishy was there an oil supply problem with the engine?

Craig i don't believe so when i took it to the engine builder his thoughts were at some stage oil must of been low at some point of the engines lifetime , as all bearings showed a fair bit of wear sump was pretty clear of sludge thinking that maybe one of the journals had blocked up .but with saying that oil pump is been checked for wear as well.
was going through your build and considering fitting a full flow kit for the oil system if i keep the grey in it did you have to put any restrictors in your oil return Craig?

No mate, no restrictors at all. A restrictor is only used in a bypass system as per the standard optional filter (it doesn't filter all the oil).
Mine is full flow and you have to careful with filter flow rates, minimum tubing size and bends/fittings. The oil has a longer path to travel from the pump to the filter then return back to feed the engine main gallery than standard. I made sure that all my internal bore sizes were no smaller than the main gallery bore size or a little larger. The oil filter selected was based on flow rate i.e. gpm/lpm with some excess. You sort of have to think a bit different about it in that the engine (crank/bearings/cam/etc) is consuming oil as it spins and this increases as rpm increases (leakage and flow past bearing clearances). Oil flow rates of the pump have to be higher than what the engine will consume throughout the rev range. Once you achieve a higher supply flow rate than the engine is consuming you will start to build pressure in the system. Standard pump sizing is ok as my engine made sufficient oil pressure and I only added about 3/16" of shim to the relief valve. Increasing oil pressure too much is just a waste of hp and adds strain to the cam drive and distributor gear and shaft. Basically you only need to ensure there is a good supply of oil at the bearings (hydrodynamic wedge principle). Pressure is just a by product of more flow than demand and is roughly controlled by a maximum pressure relief valve. More techo systems would have a regulator valve as well.

Sorry for the rant.........Cant help myself with engines!

[Fishyweare]

well had a real hard time removing bottom hinges from tailgate stuffed the tip on my impact screwdriver these screws were just not going to budge soaked them for a few days still nothing so drilled a hole through centre which allowed enough heat to whack the impact driver on them again came they loose eventually .
so after that decided to run the sander over the inside to strip paint .
Well i wasn't expecting to find the whole bottom of the inner full of bog hiding rust.
have been looking around for another tailgate but not much luck so have decided to cut and remove all rust from inner and seal it with a rust paint and fabricate another inner panel and tig weld it back on.
outer skin is perfect.

[rosco]

Hi Fishy,
I'm on your thread now - and will watch as you work through.
Your wagon looks very neat - not a fan personally of roof racks, I do understand that they are an accessory not many have - but they always look clumsy to me... my father had one on his FB wagon and I took great pride in the car when it was removed after return from a holiday.... your car, of course - and, they are removable.

Ok - engine... yes, that poor motor has been abused. I don't believe it was due to dirty oil - more likely no oil, for what ever reason.
If it were dirty oil - there would be more damage to other moving parts than just the bearings. Perhaps the wrong oil... or water......just my thoughts.

I'm sort of comforted that you will be most likely keeping the grey - you can do an awful lot to a grey of late.... once you take the red path - it's usually a one way trip - and some of the mods will be permanent.
If you do go that way, please keep everything you pull off - I'd almost guarantee that you'll put it back (especially the front end) one day to regain that former historic pride that original car owners have...

Ok - couple of little things as you go along.

Those holes in the front sills are most likely caused by the four drainage ports under the sills along the car being blocked - the monkeys at GMH were well know to have closed these up with a spot welder during construction.

Attack from the front tyres would have added to the damage - but most of it is done by water sloshing back and forth in the sills.
It usually gets in there through holes in the dogleg of the windscreen - the screws which hold the plate down are disimilar metal to the body - and they rust that corner out... water then runs down the inside of the leg and into the deep cavity at the bottom of the footwell... until it makes its own way out (rust).
Another way in is through the three screw holes that hold the sunvisor at the top of the A pillar - make absolutely sure that you seal that up with a gasket and some urethane sealant (not silicone!) when you come to fit it.

There's also a sub-frame bolt head which would do well to get released and some urethane sealant applied under the head (and a neoprene gasket which can be easily made from some thin stock).

As for the tail-gate screws - yes, they probably were ok to be removed within the "normal" service life of the vehicle.
Sadly - 50 something years was never intended.
If they had ever been taken out and the paint seal broken - it's almost odds-on that they were simply re-fitted... and leaked water into the threads.

What I do - and just about with all my threads now, is use some Loctite 76769 silver thread seal... it's expensive, but you'll only ever need one tub of the stuff (if you can resist handing it out to your friends).
The stuff is absolutely perfect for work like this... it won't seize.
It is especially essential when fitting stainless into ferro steel/iron - which will seize the thread and require almost destruction of both to get them out if untreated in years to come.
Another great use of it (I have given some to motor-bike enthusiasts who have a lot of issue with this) is to coat the threads of any bolt which goes into alloy.... again, dis-similar metals...
I would suggest anyone reading this thread to consider a tub of this stuff - just keep it on the shelf and don't be afraid to coat threads with it - you don't need much.... and, don't get any on you... it will take a serious effort to get it out of your skin.

If you can TIG weld - you won't have any issues with patching... there doesn't seem too much damage to me... those sill fronts look ugly, but you'll cut them out with the TIG as you go ... they have a habit of cleaning out rust holes as far as finding sound metal.

Fix the cause, and you're more than 90% of the way to making a full repair... check those four sill drains (they look like slots)... poke some soft wire up through them and make sure they're not blocked.

I vacuumed mine out after the car was left for 6 months up on blocks whilst re-spraying the left side..... a lot of red dust came out.

I then blocked the ports up and pumped heaps and heaps of aerosol fishoil into both sides... left it in there for a week then drained it out into four soup cans along each side.

I used a long flexible tube fitted to the aerosol - with a "fan" nozzle at the end... pushing the tube right in (as far as the next port) and repeating the slow withdrawl whilst pressing the aerosol button quite a number of times in each port has given me the comfort of believing my sills have some form of internal coating...

I also did this on all channels under the car.... and sealed up the open gaps betwen all of these and the floor...
Finally, I drilled drainage holes in everything at its lowest point.... so that if anything ever got in there - it would drain out.

I used butyl-mastic to fill all the gaps.... and then primed and top coated.....

Hope some of this helps... I'll keep an eye on posts on this thread - let me know if I'm going too far with my replies.

frats,
Rosco

[parisian62]

The wagon tailgate design and is a built in rust promoter Once you have it all buttoned up again and painted get the fish oil happening! Even with all new rubbers etc mine leaks into the rear cargo area. I make sure I dry it all out each time.

[Fishyweare]

Rosco
not at all knowledge is priceless I encourage comments it makes one stop and reevaluate the process.
Cheers

[rosco]

I have only had a Landcruiser wagon - design is an awful lot better than 1962....

Many people don't understand that water runs "uphill" at the rear of a vehicle... there's a lot of vacuum going on at the rear and it will get drawn up in heavy rain.

If you fit new rubbers - make absolutely certain that the drainage ports in the tail-gate are not fouled by the rubber seal...

Many a wagon tail-gate has also been destroyed by the fitting of carpet.. which by lack of understanding - blocked these ports.

You might like to make a modification to the OEM design and provide drainage outside the rubber... if the original ones get closed up - blank them off when you come to doing the bodywork/painting and provide ones the lowest possible point in the sump of the tail-gate.

Fishoilene goes a long way to prolonging rust - but it's not the be all and end all.... by a long shot.

I'd rather spend a week getting the drainage right than a day painting fishoil into the cavities... but, if you do both - only your great-grandkids might have to revisit the issue.....

Sadly, when GMH designed the tailgate - they made the lower section close over the top... exactly opposite to what the LC has.

In those days, it was desirable to have the upper tailgate up when traveling... (cough, cough) and very fashionable when touting around a surfboard or two on the roof.... or have a couple dangle over the top of the lower gate...

Of course - this means that water will also run down from above as it passes over the roof.... I believe you can appreciate that it is imperative to get a good seal between the two - can't remember where it is... either on the upper gate or lower... whichever, it needs to prevent water running down (and crud) and entering the lower gate.
It's the "crud" which will do the damage.... as it will build and become a great little poultice for water to lay resident in.

I might suggest a monthly "flush" if possible.. and watch those drain ports..... if you see crud coming out - then it's getting in... and needs addressing.

Another area where I have had issue with the front boot of my caravan is the handle assembly itself... it drove me absolutely crazy trying to find out where water was getting into the front boot.... I went to absolute extremes to seal up the lid itself - to the point of adding an overlapping flap of neoprene along the upper hinge line... and it still got in...

The handle design is terrible by any standards.

To remedy my issue, I fitted two "O" rings on the square shaft and sandwiched them between to steel plates I fabricated.... I used rubber grease to allow the "O" rings to turn and the two steel plates were held in place behind the bezel of the handle assembly.

I also used a Dremel to grind out a drainage port on the base of the handle assembly.... which allowed any trapped water around the "O" rings to drain out...

I have not had any water in the front boot since.. it was amazing how much got in there around that handle - even though it "looked" like it should have kept everything out....

The letters on the name badge and also the Hydramatic badge.... they can be a source of water ingress..
With the letters on the boot of my old bus, I used the Dremel to grind out drainage ports... and fitted cut out neoprene gaskets to make the seal.
These ports need only be enough to allow water out... mine are only about 1/16" deep and are at the bottom of every letter.. two on some which have dual verticals.
No-one will see them unless they know (and I'm sure someone is now going to look at mine)... it's just a little bit of "extra" to prolong the life of my dear old thing... which I treasure immensely....

Ok - 'nuff for now...

Don't be afraid to ask, Fishyweare... but, you might have to suffer a bit of a novel to get the bits you ask for...

frats,
Rosco

[Fishyweare]

well it's been a slow week with inner tailgate skin had nothing but dramas with the Tig so out came the mig was concerned with distortion so it was a slow process but happy with the finished result.just need to run a bit of filler over the edges.

[Brian Westlake]

You look to be doing some good work mate. Keep at it.
Tony.

[WOTHA?]

This is exactly what I'm looking for Love the wagons.

I recon you will get more distortion with a TIG than a well set up MIG. Just have to keep it to short runs & let it cool as you go.

[rosco]

Any updates, Fishyweare?

frats,
Rosco

[Fishyweare]

Any updates, Fishyweare?

frats,
Rosco

been a slow weekend had to clean the shed and make room for the wagon.built a trolley to put FB van on as it's been sitting on a rotisserie taking up all the room in the shed so it's getting pushed into the corner.

prepped the tailgate and the cowl , bloody terrible thing to rub back to metal but all done hopefully get a colour on these Wednesday .
unfortunately work is taking up too much time so this is going to be a slow process .
picking up full rubber kit this Wednesday night from Rares Event night 20% off bloody expensive but not much you can do .
cheers
Paul

[rosco]

Thanks Fishyweare,
probably not the best time of year to paint, unless you have some control over conditions.
Are you using a 1K etch?

That plenum intake cover is a pain in the butt to rub down - and the process of blocking it back makes it even more tedious.

As for progress, every little bit, no matter how small - keeps the build rolling along.

frats,
Rosco

[Finny]

Rubbers across the bonnet, yes. Above the guards and front guards inside, no.
I have some left over when you get to that point.