Replacing fibre timing gear help

[mpeck83]

Hi everyone,
Need some help with replacing my fibre timing gear. I am stuck on a couple of things in removing the camshaft out of my FB. The first one being removing the key from the end of the crank, it seems very tight. I have followed Harvs timing gear replacement guide I found on here and have tried taping one end but it is not moving at all and I am concern I might damage it and won't be able to reuse it.
The second is removing the lifters, I can put my finger in the top and pull up but I can only get them to come up about 20mm then they get stuck. Any thoughts?

[Blacky]

are you replacing the drive gear on the crank as well ??? I have had good luck using a set of side cutters to grip the woodruff key and then lever it out by pushing down on the side cutters and using the front edge of the crank as a fulcrum.
As for the lifters try pulling them out with a set of multi grips.

[mpeck83]

I was planning on just replacing the cam gear with a steel gear from American Auto's and leave the crank gear as is. Looks like that's what everyone recommends, does that sound correct blacky? The old fibre gear looks ok but I had to do the front seal on the timing cover and thought I would do some preventative maintenance while I had it all apart after reading all the horror story's about fibre gear. Would using side cutters on the key and multi grips in the lifters damage them? Are replacement keys readily available if I damage this one to much? Cheers Blacky.

[Harv]

He's gotta get the crank key off, even if he leaves the crank gear in place. It stops the slinger coming off, and the slinger stops the new timing gear/cam going on. shame that slinger wasn't designed a poofteenth less in diameter.

WD-40 and a slightly bigger hammer (MFH) on the woodruff key.

Cheers,
Harv

[mpeck83]

In the photo you can see how high I get the lifters before they get stuck.

[Blacky]

Lifters might have a bit of buildup on them if the motor has done a lot of miles, can you not get ANY of them out ???

Woodruff keys should be readily available, I normally linish the marks out of them and use them again.

[mpeck83]

I can't get any out yet Blacky, they all come up a little then get stuck. It's been parked up for over 20 years and looks like there has been no major work done to the engine, can that be why there's a buildup on the lifters? How can I get the lifters out without damaging them so I can reuse them if they have build up on them? Can I clean off the build up???
Cheers for your help Blacky.

[parisian62]

Give them all a good squirt between the lifter and the block with inox or wd40 and leave overnight.

[Brian Westlake]

My mechanical GURU asked me this question once. " why do you think it is, that some old grey engines seem to never need a gear, and still retain the same fibre one, whereas some engines seem to EAT fibre gears? The oiler is blocked! Even a steel gear will break if it gets HOT! (I know for a FACT that Robin Tripps wagon broke a steel gear at Bathurst Nats!)
I drilled my oiler out to 1/8 (This could be madness, I'm not an engine builder) and I started my FB without the timing cover and had a look, and I steered the oiler to make the oil spray between the 2 gears. Boy, we're getting some oil their now! I put a self tapper in the nut between the 2 halves of the rocker gear so that might restrict the oil there instead of it falling straight out again ( again, Im not an engine builder, Im just working on instinct.) The motor in my FB will NOT be getting a steel timing gear as Im content to play Russian Roulette with the old fibre one.(Steel gear and cold chisel etc. in the boot for Nats trips) My point is,At least make sure that little oiler thing with the screw slot isnt blocked up.
Tony Types a Little

[GreyEJ]

You'll actually find that cam gears ( fiber ) that ran dry lasted longer The oil softens the fiber. Repco had a few test engines and proved it. Don't believe me call Clive from Clive cams he was there.

I run steel or alloy ( have more then one with double valve springs ) and make sure there is plenty of oil.

[Brian Westlake]

Hey Grey EJ, that makes a monkey out of my theory doesnt it! Oh well, Im still not changing that fibre gear so I may end up in the Blown gear "Hall of Fame" next year. Sounds like we should take Fis EK (Steel Gear!) Anyway, I promise I will report on this forum if and when that gear goes (If the gudgeons dont rattle out first!)
Tony FibreFriendly

[bakelitecow]

I had exactly the same problem with the key as well,... when i did mine ,... could not budge it with as much persuasion as i could ,with the engine being in the car room is limited
I ended up using a Dremel and cutting disc and ground it out ,... it was painful
Replacement keys are readily available ,.. i bought a pack of (12) - 3/4"x 3/16 woodruff ,... so if you want one could post it to you
For the lifters as eveyone says it is just carbon build up on them ,... i used Carb cleaner and sprayed it on them to dissolve it , that worked best for me
Regards
Kel

[GreyEJ]

Hey Grey EJ, that makes a monkey out of my theory doesnt it! Oh well, Im still not changing that fibre gear so I may end up in the Blown gear "Hall of Fame" next year. Sounds like we should take Fis EK (Steel Gear!) Anyway, I promise I will report on this forum if and when that gear goes (If the gudgeons dont rattle out first!)
Tony FibreFriendly

We ( dad and I ) changed the one in the ej when I was about 13. It went fine for many years with the replacement fibre. But then the front cam bearing spun. At that point the grey came out a red went in. So that was at a guess 5+ year on a fibre gear dad had so they will be fine for a while.

Last year the car was passed to me, so the red came out and a grey went back in. At that point in time I thought while it's out I'll put a mild cam in. Well that plane went out the window and it's not more wild then mild. Sounds great but a bit hard to drive slowly.

[Brian Westlake]

I like the sound of that HOT EJ (I probably would like the sound of it if I heard it run!) What colour is it? (Grey?) I dont think more oil would soften the fibre cam gear but I wasnt there when Repco was testing it and I dont have vast experience with Sideplate motors, but I am always willing to embrace new points of view if they have merit. People used to say that 272 Y Blocks used to spin the cam bearings but they actually used to wipe metal into the oil hole on one side of the bearing, blocking off the feed to the rocker gear on the right side. this explains all the F600 F ord farm trucks with an oil line into the tappet cover on the right side.I guess this is totally off the subject but I thought of it when you mentioned spun cam bearing on Grey engine. When I build a bit of a Hottie for my Pink FB, I will use a steel gear with lots of oil.
Tony.

[GreyEJ]

We ( dad and I ) changed the one in the ej when I was about 13. It went fine for many years with the replacement fibre. But then the front cam bearing spun. At that point the grey came out a red went in. So that was at a guess 5+ year on a fibre gear dad had so they will be fine for a while.

Cam bearing spun, wow haven't heard of that before.......
Tim

Yep. We suspect because an oil gallery ran dry the one the feeds the oil to the front bearing the other cam bearings were fine. Suspicions lead to us not clearing out the block / sump when we changed it many years ago and eventually just blocked up.

Interestingly just recently my wife VY commo spun a big end and it's always been looked after and only 210,000ks