Radiator Saver

[reddo]

Hi All

After destroying my radiator in that smash the other week i got to thinking what i could do to prevent the motor throwing forward in a smash or.. in a hard brake lock up . The red moytor water pump bolts only sit about 20mm off the radiator and .. even with the 2 red motor mounts at the front and the rear engoine mounts ( still running the grey crash box behind the red motor .. so have 4 engine mounts).. the engine can move forward enough to "eat "the radiator.

So... I used a Commodore ute tailgate wire and a turnbuckle. Bolted it to a right angle bracket which i bolted to the left rear engine mount and then ran the wire back to one of the bolts that holds the crossmember that goes under the rear of the gearbox...then cut the wire to suit.Used small clamps and then tightened the turnbuckle until the wire became tight without moving / pulling the engine mount back wards.
I figure with the wire being about 400mm long it wont cause a vibration like a solid engine mount would.

here ya go...
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a150/ ... 010849.jpg
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a150/ ... 010848.jpg
ooooo looky chrome go fast engine mounts..

What areyour thoughts on this idea.. waste of time?? Do i need to put a one on the drivers side to keep the motor pulled back square

I am going to replace the bolts that hold the fan to water pump. thinking of using button head allen keyed screws.

I could go to a thermo fan mounted in front of the radiator but the 4 bolts on the water pump will still be the same distance off the radiator... just lurking thier waiting thier chance to chew up another radiator.

Reddo

[FB MAD]

Ummmmmmmmmmmmm............................... it's ummm........... an......arrr.........it's an...................well..........................it sort of.....errrrr.............................that's ................ .........

Very good engineering there Reddo, it will work brilliantly...........................................

what does it do??

OK,

Might help a bit but there's a lot of kinetic energy in an engine/gearbox as it moves forward.Probably OK in a very low speed crash?Cable will either stretch or break or clamps will slip.

Wire/cable should absorb some of the engine vibrations, I'd be putting one on both sides to even it all up.

Allen key flat head bolts might help with radiator clearance as opposed to normal bolts, might gain a few mm more clearance.

[Trev]

The radiator would be the last thing I would be worried about in an accident , if the engine didn't wreck the radiator, the front end collision probably will . (I know yours was a side on smash ) Trev .

[rosco]

Hi Reddo,
when push comes to shove - or crunch - anything which you fit "might" save the day..... most of it, unfortunately - is down to luck and reflexes......
I have done many things to mine which offer some comfort.... but in reality, I'm probably running with a false sense of security - as Trev states - it would depend entirely on the degree of collision..... cannot see any difficulties or matters arising from having that extra bit of security.....

Engine fan/water pump bolts - yes, I considered fitting button head stainless... and would probably have done it - but for one thing...... my water pump/fan probably sits a bit closer to the radiator than yours - I cannot fit a ring spanner to those four bolts on mine - and have to work them in with an o/e spanner...... it takes some considerable time - and in most cases, is easier to remove the radiator and work unhindered......

Now the tricky bit - if you fit allen socket button heads - you might find it difficult to fit/remove them with the key...... a grinding wheel will of course can be put to good use to create a "special" tool.......

great idea, Reddo - hope you do not ever have to concern yourself with this situation again......

frats,
Rosco

[reddo]

Hi all..

I was probaly being generous when i said 20mm clearance.
Thruth is i cannot fit a flat ring spanner down over the heads of the bolts on the fan /water pump. while the radiator is in place.
I reckon anyone with a red motor conversion is in the same situation.

Those of you with 4 or 5 speeds dont have the 2 rear engine mounts but have the rear gearbox mount.
It still adds up to the same scenario.
You jam your foot on a boosted brake pedal hard enough and everything is gunna lurch forward.

true .. the contaption i have fitted wont help if ya have a front end shunt and everything is crumpling back towards the fan.
But
The wire might offer just enough resistance in a emergency stop ... or if ya clout an unseen / unmoveable object
to save the mincer from eating your cooler.

Will fiddle with the idea or a second cable again tomorrow.. Maybe look at a single centre mount cable somehow

Gyro Gearloose signing off for tonight......

[mrs ratbox]

get rid of that crash box and put the engine back where it should be i can just about get a socket on mine

have you found somebody to repair it yet

[Devilrod]

I think the main problem Reddo is you've got a flex fan and not much room at all. Those blades are made to flex and obviously do so when you brake really hard. I've got similar clearances to Rat and run the standard Holden fan without any issues.

[rosco]

Likewise Brett - I probably have the least clearance of any I have seen..... this was the way Rare's did the engine mounts back in the early '80's.....

I have a standard EH fan on mine - it has never made contact with either the original EK, modified XW or current HK,T,G radiators....... I cannot get my hand between the fan and the radiator....... I'm guessing Rares or CRS moved the mounts to the rear at some latter stage...... it probably needs moving back about 10 mm to leave enough room from the head to the firewall - and make enough to get a ring spanner on the fan bolts.....

frats,
Rosco

[reddo]

Hi RB

I have had 2 beaters look at the damage. The second bloke has sent all the info off to Shannons. he has classed it as an uneconomical repair. I called in on friday and he said that Shannons will be contacting me either monday or tuesday... says they might want him to quote it.
Will sort out a beater once i get either a cheque.. or the go ahead to use the beater that done the quote to repair it.

Talking to a bloke the other day.. he has 2 modified HR crossmembers complete with disc brakes etc.
Both have the shortened front outrigger and engine monts moved.
One was in an EH with 186 / 5 speed
Other was in an EH with 253.
It has a chunk out of the crossmemember for the sump. different engine mount positions and forward mount rack and pinion steering.
$650 the pair.
The first one looks very clean. No damage at all.
A lot beter than the one i have in the van at the moment.

Both mounts ... (from what i could see climbing around in the container full of gear ) appear to be flush with the back edge of the c/member.

The mounts on my c/member are about 10 to 15mm forward of the back edge... and there in lies my problem with fan clearance.
That is why i used a flex fan... all of the 6 blades sit further back than the 4 bolts that hold the fan on.

Cheers
Reddo

[FB MAD]

Reddo,

I'll give you a phone call,save time consuming typing.

[Devilrod]

The mounts on my c/member are about 10 to 15mm forward of the back edge... and there in lies my problem with fan clearance.
That is why i used a flex fan... all of the 6 blades sit further back than the 4 bolts that hold the fan on.

Cheers
Reddo

Bugger!

[mrs ratbox]

i might be interested in the rack front depending on price if yor not, the EH mounts usually are still to far forward, my ones actually hang off the rear of the cross member, if you look at stock HR they hang slightly off the front of the cross member that's about how i have them at the rear

[FB MAD]

Tried to ring ya thsarvo Reddo but ya wouldn't answer


In the meantime, have taken some pics of two HR front ends I have here so you can see where the engine mounts for red motor should be moved back to and welded.




This is the drivers side of a HR front that I got from Billy Blackarrow and was in his FB sedan and fitted with an EH outrigger.Can see that it has been welded right along the rear leading edge as opposed to the last photo of an original unmodified HR front end that has the mount welded to the front.





Same front end showing passenger side, again showing the mount welded right at the rear leading edge.







Same front end from overhead showing the overall position of both engine mounts after they have been cut and re-welded.

They have been moved back 3 1/2 inches from where they originally were fitted.






Overhead pic of the original unmodified HR front end showing the position of the engine mounts at the front leading edge of the crossmember.

Sounds like your best bet Reddo ( and I know its a pain in the bum to do it ) is to drop the front end down and cut and move the mounts back further or get those other front ends you mentioned above and re-weld the mounts back 3 1/2 inches.

Hope this helps,

[mrs ratbox]

he can't do any engine mount moving unless he changes his gearbox which would entail floor mods so at a guess may be easier to just move the radiator forward a bit or is it really all worth it, like as has been said IF you have another incident radiator would be least of my worries

[rosco]

think we've got to get through this Shannons bit before any plans are made.....

I hope I'm wrong, but I've got a bit of a problem with what you posted above.... what does an "uneconomical repair" mean.....?

I believe it is good practice to get as high an agreed value on a vehicle as possible - probably all wrong with this and apologise if I am causing concern.....

frats,
Rosco