alright wealth of knowledge forum.......
i have read a few post on this subject but was wondering for a condensed search or a complete bible on the matter. so i guess your up rosco...
the burgandy ek is getting a warm red 179, extractors, 350 holley. i have a hr front end thats needs a complete overhaul. i also have a donor eh the motor is coming out of. so this would take care of the eh sump required. now for the the diff part and rear wheel cylinders bit. do i have to change the diff?, and will the eh one fit rather easily?? phark i had just had the wheel cylinders resleeved for the drums. i had just fitted a vh44 on there as well so this should take care of the boosting side. i have the three speed manual box for the red also. is it worth changing the box or keeping with the original 3 speed?? also any good engineers for this job. i'm in carine. north of perth.
any and all help warmly appreciated.
jim
I'M DRAGGING OFF THE SNAILS WITH MY 138 TRAIL!!!!!!
With a 179 it would be better to change to a red motor diff centre which will give you better ratios to pick from.Red diff centres will bolt into the grey diff housing.Make sure you get a course spline diff as the later fine spline ones don't fit.Only other mod is replacing the grey motor tailshaft rear uni joint with a red motor one.Easy to do and about $30 for the uni joint.
I think the EJ/EH diff will bolt in with not much mods if you want to go that way.I think the wheel track is similar to FB/EK?
If you are using HR Disc brakes you should use the HR disc rear wheel cylinders as they are a different size to drum brake ones.
I'd suggest a red 3.36 or 3.08 with a 179.
3.55 won't give much difference from the grey 3.89.
You couild go 2.78 but its a fairly tall, long legged ratio mainly for highway and if you are using a 3 speed it can be problematic around town with the wide ratios inherant in a 3 speed box.
Depending on how you treat the original crash box will depend on how long it lasts behind a 179.
Treat it right without abuse and it should last a while but subject it to overload and it will give up.Everything has a breaking point.
sure did fbmad. thank you. i totally forgot to mention that it is a disc brake set up going in. the eh donor is an auto. haven't checked that ratio yet, but i have a red 3 speed out of another eh. my cars all get driven HARD to say the least. there is only one speed.... flat out. haha..so the grey box leaves its home. the 3.36 does sound the way to go.
thanks again. and if i wanted a five speed i would just need the auto tunnel, & go the 3.08 ratio
jim
I'M DRAGGING OFF THE SNAILS WITH MY 138 TRAIL!!!!!!
EJ/EH diffs bolt straight in, and a quick call to AutoCables will get you a handbrake cable to suit the EK/EJ-H mismatch. 3.36 was my choice of gears sseems to be a good all round setup with 14's.
We swapped to a matching rear wheel cylinder for the front brakes and welded in a piece of steel to the rear shoes so the cylinders would work (after consultation with a brake place) and job done.
Speed and Style........... One day I'll get the speed bit.
lunatic leprechaun wrote:sure did fbmad. thank you. i totally forgot to mention that it is a disc brake set up going in. the eh donor is an auto. haven't checked that ratio yet, but i have a red 3 speed out of another eh. my cars all get driven HARD to say the least. there is only one speed.... flat out. haha..so the grey box leaves its home. the 3.36 does sound the way to go.
thanks again. and if i wanted a five speed i would just need the auto tunnel, & go the 3.08 ratio
jim
If you were to go for a 5 speed (with overdrive) you can afford to go 3.55 and even higher . This gives you the flexibility in the lower gears, and good low revs on the freeway when you're in 5th.
You'll notice most of todays cars ,where top gear is an overdrive gear,have quite (numerically) high diff ratios
Hi Jim,
Terry and Brett have pretty much given you the broad brush of this.
I can supply every jot of info I made note of when I did my modification.... a project which eventually lasted 20 years until I was satisfied with the result..... there's a lot in there - but it is quite feasible.
Let me know if you go ahead and get stuck - happy to help......
As for the diff, if you are going to keep the 3 speed box, I would suggest using the 3.36.. you'll notice a fair difference from the 3:89.
I ran a 3:55 in mine with an Aus 4 speed - but it ran out of legs in 3rd fairly early and 2nd was just a quick in and out on the way through the pattern.
What I did find with the 3:55 and the 4 speed was - it would climb a brick wall - and tow a heavy load almost unstoppable.....
With a 3:08 and a 3 speed - you'll have to push first a bit to get it happily in the toque curve for second - this is where the 4 speed fits perfectly.
The gear ratios for your 1st gear are 2.99, 2nd is 1.59
The Aus 4 spd I have is 1st 3.05, 2nd 2.19, 3rd 1.51.... so you can see that with the 4 spd .... it gives you that "joining" gear between 1st and 2nd of a crash box....... this is why I suggest the 3:36.....
Don't fear that you'll suffer out on the road with a 179 and 3:36 ....believe it or not, I find that the engine likes to rev a little - it just as well with fuel at 60 mph that it does at 55 mph..... my engine (standard with recently re-profiled "standard" cam) seems to have a "sweet spot" at around 2500 rpm..... it is 61 mph with a 3:08 - with a 3:36 this would be around the 54 mph .... assuming you have 13" wheels and comparative rolling diameter tyres to standard....
By using the original box, you are avoiding many of the issues I had to contend with - transmission hump, handbrake modification, tailshaft, speedo drive, slave cylinder, linkages etc, etc, etc it goes on and on....
but you will come across quite a few "needs" to fit that red... it is simply not a case of cut and paste.... shifting engine mounts, radiator and hoses, radiator fan, exhaust, and a number of little niggling fittings..... the engine is the easy change - gearbox is a much more demanding alteration....
I read that you have HR disc front end... a couple of years back, Bursons supplied me with new RDA rotors and were able to "outshop" my calipers - the result being that I now have equivalent brakes to any that I have had on my old bus.... yes, I know there will be doubters here - but the standard EK braking system is indeed a very suitable one - if kept in good condition - the only advantage I have noted from fitting the full disc/drum system of an HR is that it can be applied repeatedly with some force under load before fade begins..... after that - they are all "tarred" with the same brush.... any brake which becomes overheated is a daunting experience......
The rotors on an HR disc are very thin and non-vented.... they will heat up quickly in comparison to modern vehicles.... don't for one minute believe that you will have a comparable braking system to that of any "common" vehicle you currently drive......
The other concern that you may not be aware of is within the "boosting" system - it will not perform to that of a firewall mounted booster with master cylinder attached..... these are "servo" units - as you would have experienced with your VH 44 - sadly, you will need the VH 40 for the HR disc front end...... unless of course - you decide to bite the bullet and somehow fit a modern booster/master cylinder arrangement - along with some form of clutch control......
That's about all for now, Jim.... let me know if you need more - I have written a book on this... within my logbook ... it details parts needed from differing models and also modifications I had to effect to finally get the "marriage" of all components cohesive......
thanks guys for that.. just contemplating the different ways to go. want to get all my facts right before i go a certain way with the beast.. ive had a vh44 on old ej. hr disc brake front end, 192 with 179 head, and celica 5 speed about 20 years ago. funny as. the thing would smoke taking off then the brakes would be smoking from excessive braking. anything for smoke back then. haha. also have vh 44 on my xl ute with disc brake front end and 302 windsor. i thought they were fine for the application. the vh40 was just giving that bit more pressure on braking. is that correct rosco?
jim
I'M DRAGGING OFF THE SNAILS WITH MY 138 TRAIL!!!!!!
rosco wrote:I'm not sure Jim, but I was of the opinion that the 44 was for drum braked vehicle FB/EK's - from memory, it has a smaller diaphragm......?
Yep, VH44 for drum brakes, VH40 for discs.