Horn Brush Replacement help.

[Bus1211]

The old girls Horn isnt working ??

I've done the test light jobby an all that,,,and power to all leads as it should be.
Then,,,,,shorted the horn after taking horn Button off, through the holes used to Bolt the 2x Rods to use a Removal tool and she blows !!

I now have the Steering wheel off, and what I was wondering was, on the back of the steering wheel, the contact point to the brass ring for the horn, does that stay in the steering wheel, and on the front of the wheel, what looks like a split pin with a spring around it, do you just change that ??

I have the workshop manual, but it seems a bit basic, and the pic, doesnt really show a lot ??

Sorry to ask such basic questions,
Thanks for any help on this,
Bus1211

[blue ute]

The old girls Horn isnt working ??

Rub harder

[EKSPCL]

Same thought entered my head

[Bus1211]

Very good boys,,,,,,,,,ha ha,,,

Now hows about putting your minds to giving me a little help,,,,,please ??

Cheers,
bus1211

[Bus1211]

Cant anyone help ?

I know it may be basic, but any advice or knowledge would be great

Cheers,
Bus1211

[Bus1211]

63 views and no one knows,,,,,,,,,

or wants to help?????

Strange ??

Bus1211

[FB MAD]

Bus,

I'm wearing bourbon glasses ATM so starting to make less sense than the little sense that I make when I haven't got them on
.... if that makes any sense.

I'll have a go tomorrow but in the meantime is it possible to throw some pics up of the parts that are in question?

[thropzed]

Bus, The brass ring should be facing you when replaced on the steering colomn, so that the pin thingy makes contact with the brass to close the circuit. The brass split pin thingy goes into the slot in your steering wheel and all should be good.
Hope this is what you need, I am a little confused with your description of what is or isn't happening.
Cheers Theo Z................

[Bus1211]

thanks guys for the help,

I'll try to get some pics up shortly,

Cheers,
Bus1211

[Bus1211]

Frustrating Simple things,,,,,,,mmmmm

Can anyone tell me how this Blasted Horn Brush and ring etc works,,,,
I know the leads and horn works, tried it all with test lamps etc, and all fine,,,,,,
Just that the ring, wont seem to be "Springy" for a word to use, and doesnt blow the horn ??

I have the manual, and can see how everything goes together, but what I dont understand is, how come the Horn ring doesnt seem to be flexible ?
What i mean is, that it doesnt seem to spring in and out when pushed ??
It just seems to sit there ?
Should there be springs somewhere, thats missing ??

I have also bought a "Supposed" horn replacement Brush to suit an FB, (Off Evilbay) but it seems to be nothing like the old one that is on there ??

Can someone please, please help me ??
I'll put up some pics to try and explain things ?

The new Brush on the left, Old one on the right !!
The rare spares Pack, said it suits FB's, but its different??

The setup I have as it goes back on !!

Obviously the steering wheel, with the hole at the Bottom for the Horn Brush ?


Hoping someone can fill me in on what to do,,,,,
Its frustrating the hell outta me,,,,,

Cheers,
Bus1211

[thropzed]

Hey Bus, The ring with the multi holes should have a slight convex curve to it. I put mine so that the curve is facing towards you and that is ya springy thing.
Hope this helps
Cheers Theo Z...............

[Bus1211]

Thanks for all that, guys,,,,,

But,,,,,,

The horn either doesnt work when I have had the wheel off and played with it,,,,,,
Or when I take it off other times, put it back its locked on ????

Is the steering wheel sposed to be a bit springy though ???
Because mine, feels as flat as a pancake with no springiness at all,,,

Bus

[rosco]

Hi Bus,
yes - these can be a bit tricky, like most things - we pull em apart when they stop working and sometimes can't get them back together as it would seem logical for them to work.

I had a lot of trouble when I was a kid with this ..... ended up nearly getting thrown out at a drive-in when the blasted thing (no pun intended) started to sound on it's own and I couldn't stop it - until someone showed me the fuse........

I had pulled it apart earlier in the day because of a "scraping" sound when turning the steering wheel and just couldn't get the thing back together in the order it originally came apart.......

Answers..... yes - your steering wheel has to be rock hard when the nut and lock nut are tightened - we don't want a "sloppy" steering wheel - the steering on these dear old things leaves a lot to be desired at the best of times..... let alone create any additional slop.......

The horn blowing ring must have spring in it - this is the switch.
There aren't any springs fitted to this assembly to make it return - the only "spring" is the contact ring (with holes in it) and of course - the tension spring to hold the brush in contact with the brass ring on the steering mast.

The pic below is the order and orientation of the parts you will need to refit correctly. I do understand you have the manual - but for the benefit of others watching this post - I have included this in my post.......



I note your concern with the replacement contact but feel it should not be an issue..... I don't know how skilled you are with a soldering iron, but if your old contact is not damaged, you may consider replacing the parts which don't fit with the old ones and soldering it back as an assembly.......
But..... from what I can see in your pics - it should work fine - Rare's have obviously made some modifications to the original - but from what I can see - it is all "easy fix" to manufacturing.... and should function perfectly.....

Probably one thing I would suggest you do is to smear some electically conductive lubricant onto the contact ring to prevent it wearing prematurely or indeed - scoring the ring.....

Only the brass pin is critical - it must have a smooth flat working end (face) and must fit snugly but freely into the insulator which houses it in the steering wheel hub.
The other end of this contact assembly simply makes a momentary contact with the horn switch contact (ring with holes in it) when this is deflected.

Please excuse me if I am stating what you already know but......

Your horn is permanently wired "live" on the positive side - if you short the negative terminal on the horn itself to the body - it will sound.....

Only a fuse on the fuse block isolates this positive supply to the horn (this is what stopped the cafuffle at the drive-in that night.......).

Horn operation is made by "earthing" the other side of the horn armature - this is done by pressing the horn ring or pushing in the central button (the lovely black cover).

The contact operation is made by the horn ring connecting the brown horn wire to the steering shaft through the brush (for want of a better word) contact which you are replacing.
This brush - diagram number 6 (although it looks like a brass pin with braid soldered to it and a tag at the other end) is permanently in contact with the horn contact ring (diag. # 3 )and it slides around on it as the steering wheel is turned (this is where my "scraping" sound emanated from many years back - a grooved horn contact ring......).

The actual operation contact is made by deflecting the horn switch contact (with holes in it...diag. # 14 ) by its spacer (diag. # 15 ). This, of course - is done by placing it under "load" by the horn ring or central button.....

To prevent the horn operating at all times, insulating spacers (diag. # 16 ) are fitted on the horn blowing ring mount screws. These isolate the horn ring from the steering shaft and electrically insulate any contact.

To operate the horn, the horn blowing ring (or button) is depressed, the horn switch contact is deflected by its insulator and makes contact with the steering wheel metal hub - which of course is splined to the steering shaft and this makes the electrical connection to earth.

The important bits (which most of us stuff up) are the orientation of the horn switch contact - it must be fitted as shown in the diagram.

The isolators must be positioned so that when the assembly is screwed down, they insulate the horn switch contact from any earth.

It often is the case (as was in my learning of this) that even with the parts correctly fitted, it is possible to "trap" the horn switch contact under one of the insulators as you screw down the assembly...... this is where I feel you are having problems.......

My suggestion - fit all parts so that the horn switch contact is correctly positioned and ensure that the three isolators keep this contact in place without trapping it under them as you tighten down the horn ring by its three screws.

Where I feel you have ... ummmm.... "erred..." is that you have fitted the screws and insulators incorrectly which is causing the contact to deflect under the load of your screws as you tighten them down.

You must fit the three screws through their respective isolating bushes into the horn blowing ring - then through the bakelite insulator and finally through the three larger holes in the contact ring - that allows this contact ring to deflect up and down under load from the operating ring or button.

If you screw this down through the three smaller holes - you will compress the ring and it will make permanent electrical contact with the steering shaft.......

or

if you have all this fitted correctly, if this contact ring slips under one of the insulators - the same thing will happen - you will screw it down and trap it - causing it to make permanent connection - and of course - no spring return......

If this fails - you may have a defective component which is allowing the assembly to make an earth contact - hopefully we won't have to track that down......

hope this helps, Bus....

frats,
Rosco

[Paul M]

Hi Rosco,
Excellent post horn now working fine.
Regards, Paul

[FbSTDwagon]

Great information on getting the horn working !