OK, I have decided to put a HR disc brake front end into my EK. I'll cover that in another topic. The 138 head should be back soon, and depending on how it goes I am looking at what is required to upgrade to a 186, but have a few questions. I have searched the other posts in the Engine section and can't find answers to these questions. If I put in a 186;
will it bolt straight onto the current 3 speed manual box?
If not, I assume I can put a 186 box in but need to modify the floor. (did they have a 3 speed syncro?)
will I need to change the tail shaft? if I keep box or change ?
will the speedo cable need to be changed?
will I need a new exhaust system to connect?
Do I need to put booster on brakes if 186 used, or do I have to have this anyhow with the new disc brakes?
Anything else I have missed?
I make the following assumptions;
will need an engineers approval.
186 will bolt straight onto the engine mounts on HR front end.
Grey to 186 upgrade
Grey to 186 upgrade
IT's LIKE WATCHING DRUNK MONKEYS TRYING TO HUMP A FOOTBALL.
Finny there is lots of better know-how out there, but here it goes
1 Yes will bolt up to the crash 3 speed, we run a 161 with crash 3 speed as a daily driver, no problems
2 Not sure on the floor plan with syncro box, but you need to fab up a gearbox cross member
3 Keep standard tail shaft if keeping crash box, not sure of syncro
4 speedo.. no for crash not sure of syncro
5 Exhaust...I would presume there would be some work required around the manifold, nothing major
6 Not sure if you need Booster with 186 in your state ( check with the licencing department ) Bolting up a hr disc front end will not automatically give you a boosted brake system, But personally i would get a booster installed, there a a few options on boosting, check threw the threads
7 The only other things are modifying the engine / and front outrigger mounts on the hr front end, and any other state rego requirments ie seatbelts, demisters, 2 speed wipers etc again check with licencing department
Have probably mist something, but hope that helps
Ben
1 Yes will bolt up to the crash 3 speed, we run a 161 with crash 3 speed as a daily driver, no problems
2 Not sure on the floor plan with syncro box, but you need to fab up a gearbox cross member
3 Keep standard tail shaft if keeping crash box, not sure of syncro
4 speedo.. no for crash not sure of syncro
5 Exhaust...I would presume there would be some work required around the manifold, nothing major
6 Not sure if you need Booster with 186 in your state ( check with the licencing department ) Bolting up a hr disc front end will not automatically give you a boosted brake system, But personally i would get a booster installed, there a a few options on boosting, check threw the threads
7 The only other things are modifying the engine / and front outrigger mounts on the hr front end, and any other state rego requirments ie seatbelts, demisters, 2 speed wipers etc again check with licencing department
Have probably mist something, but hope that helps
Ben
Thanks Ben, appreciate the feedback. If a 186 will bolt straight onto the existing gear box and I don't need to change the tailshaft, then I shouldn't need to touch the floor pan either.
Sounds fairly easy.
But as I know from past history, thats just a temporary illusion. Little things like a missing pin or something that takes 4 weeks to find. 
I am still interested to hear if anyone has done a 186, in case there is some difference between a 161 and 186.
Sounds fairly easy.
But as I know from past history, thats just a temporary illusion. Little things like a missing pin or something that takes 4 weeks to find. I am still interested to hear if anyone has done a 186, in case there is some difference between a 161 and 186.
IT's LIKE WATCHING DRUNK MONKEYS TRYING TO HUMP A FOOTBALL.
-
mrs ratbox
yes will bolt up to original box
if you get a red crash box you shouldn't need floor mods other than something for the gearbox crossmember, you can get a 3 speed syncro box but it's the same as an aussie 4 speed, you will need some hump mods not nessicarilly replace hump
gray gearbox same tailshaft, red gearbox different
gray gearbox same cable, red different
exhaust will need some mods at engine pipe
you will need a booster with the disc brakes any way
an engineer may want you to change the gearbox to a red motor one anyway but maybe not
engine mounts on the HR front unless it came out of an FE/FC/FB/EK will need to be moved
if you get a red crash box you shouldn't need floor mods other than something for the gearbox crossmember, you can get a 3 speed syncro box but it's the same as an aussie 4 speed, you will need some hump mods not nessicarilly replace hump
gray gearbox same tailshaft, red gearbox different
gray gearbox same cable, red different
exhaust will need some mods at engine pipe
you will need a booster with the disc brakes any way
an engineer may want you to change the gearbox to a red motor one anyway but maybe not
engine mounts on the HR front unless it came out of an FE/FC/FB/EK will need to be moved
Some of this has already been mentioned 
,
186 will bolt straight up to original 3 speed crashbox as will any red motor from 138 red ( yes,they made them) right through all capacities up to and including 202..
Original HR engine mounts on HR front end will have to be cut off and rewelded to the rear of the crossmember ( or new mounts made to suit and welded to the rear of crossmember).
You will need an EH Holden sump.
Need to swap front outrigger from HR to a kingpin one ( if not already done).
If using standard grey motor engine pipe it only has to be heated up with an oxy/acetylene torch and bent slightly to mate up at correct angle to stock red motor exhaust manifold.Rest of exhaust system can stay the same.
Original rear grey motor engine/gearbox mounts are still used if staying with grey motor gearbox.
Speedo,tailshaft and gearshift linkages stay the same if you are using grey gearbox.
If your HR front has already been modified for an EH it will fit FB/EK as is.Brake booster I think has been mentioned already.
If your outrigger on your HR front hasn't got two holes drilled in it for grey motor front engine mount,and you plan on sticking with the grey, then these two holes will have to be drilled for the front grey engine mount.
Make sure if using original grey motor throttle linkage that the throttle crossover shaft that runs behind the head doesn't touch the back of tappet cover/head ( mainly in full throttle position) when fitting the red motor as it can be a fairly close fit back there.From memory the red motor block is an inch longer than a grey motor block and it is a little bit tighter fit than a grey.
There are probably a few other relatively minor mods required but these and those mentioned by others above are the main ones that have to be done.Easy conversion to do.
I don't think you would gain much by fitting the red crash box.If you don't want the grey box go to 3 or 4 speed synchro with hump mods and rear gearbox mount fabricated.Next step up would be a 5 speed conversion.
Before you do anything,check with QLD rego authorities and/or approved engineer as to what you can or can't do in your state.
May save some time and sometimes unnesessary expence that way.
,186 will bolt straight up to original 3 speed crashbox as will any red motor from 138 red ( yes,they made them) right through all capacities up to and including 202..
Original HR engine mounts on HR front end will have to be cut off and rewelded to the rear of the crossmember ( or new mounts made to suit and welded to the rear of crossmember).
You will need an EH Holden sump.
Need to swap front outrigger from HR to a kingpin one ( if not already done).
If using standard grey motor engine pipe it only has to be heated up with an oxy/acetylene torch and bent slightly to mate up at correct angle to stock red motor exhaust manifold.Rest of exhaust system can stay the same.
Original rear grey motor engine/gearbox mounts are still used if staying with grey motor gearbox.
Speedo,tailshaft and gearshift linkages stay the same if you are using grey gearbox.
If your HR front has already been modified for an EH it will fit FB/EK as is.Brake booster I think has been mentioned already.
If your outrigger on your HR front hasn't got two holes drilled in it for grey motor front engine mount,and you plan on sticking with the grey, then these two holes will have to be drilled for the front grey engine mount.
Make sure if using original grey motor throttle linkage that the throttle crossover shaft that runs behind the head doesn't touch the back of tappet cover/head ( mainly in full throttle position) when fitting the red motor as it can be a fairly close fit back there.From memory the red motor block is an inch longer than a grey motor block and it is a little bit tighter fit than a grey.
There are probably a few other relatively minor mods required but these and those mentioned by others above
are the main ones that have to be done.Easy conversion to do.I don't think you would gain much by fitting the red crash box.If you don't want the grey box go to 3 or 4 speed synchro with hump mods and rear gearbox mount fabricated.Next step up would be a 5 speed conversion.
Before you do anything,check with QLD rego authorities and/or approved engineer as to what you can or can't do in your state.
May save some time and sometimes unnesessary expence that way.
I can't think what to write here so this will do.