underbody

ekdave1962 · Post by **ekdave1962** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 8:02 pm

Hi guys and girls .. just been doing a little work on the under body of the hulk ,, now the question is what to apply .. etch coat then primer and a sealer .. or skip sealer and a coat of black gloss .. ?

any other sugestion welcome
D

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captainbill · Post by **captainbill** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 9:11 pm

Hey dave,I would usually etch prime then shoot some underbody deadner.The deadner seems to provide a protective barrier from water and stone chipsYou done a good job of cleaning though so some gloss black would look a treat.

yeprat1 · Post by **yeprat1** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 10:45 pm

looking good dave your floor looks in as good a nick as mine does .it depends if u want the smooth look or rough using deadener .im a painter and decorator and i painted my underbody in killrust satin finish so my diff etc looks nice in gloss i swear by killlrust style products

munro · Post by **munro** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:03 am

what your after is a personal choice thing.
1 always etch prime thats a must.
then you could use either blackjack which is a tar base will seal and protect.
or you can color
just remember the undercarage cops a hard time so you don't want anything that will chip.
i'd recomend seeing an auto paint specialist and looking at the por15 range.

but all of this is usless unless you've etched it straight away.
cheers tom

ekdave1962 · Post by **ekdave1962** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 8:43 am

thanks guys,
Think ill go with the sealer munro's point is very valid although it wont be driven a lot it wouldnt take much for a few chips to exspose the metal and start the cancer all over ..

I hear you loud and clear munro re etching as moisture attacks the metal straight away .. ps ya doing a magic job on yours obviouly not your 1 st project lol ..

D

rosco · Post by **rosco** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 7:06 pm

Hi Dave,
I love the underside of your bus.......... you've done some work there.
Is that a Hadfield chassis rail?

Body deadener

everyone in our club is just about going to faint now that I have started my comments on this.

Relax!, I'm not going to attach the pages and pages I have written over the years on my experience with body deadener................

Dave, it has been pointed out that body deadener/sealer will certainly help stop damage by stones/rocks and whatever gets thrown at it.

I plastered around 20 litres of the stuff on just about everything which wasn't blue, stainless or white - inside and out ........ and after 25 years I'm still paying for it. I am now getting the last of it out of my boot (not the steel toe-cap type, silly).

One type of it however, that I would love to get my hands on again, is Tetro-seal - that is the only stuff I have sprayed onto bare steel and found that there wasn't any rust under it when I scraped it off again much later.
That product was made in England where I'm sure you realize they use salt to melt snow on their roads.

Every other type of body deadener I have used has been deadly on metal - the only way to ensure it doesn't trap humidity in and attack your steel is first to etch, prime and multi-coat the steel.

If you then want to add the protection of the sealer/deadener - go ahead, it does do what the can says -protect from chips etc.
Down side is that the stuff is so good at sealing and by the very nature of it being matt and quite "rendered" will disguise anything which may start to "grow" underneath.

I have nearly got all my "black death" out, but having said that, I did apply some of it to bare steel - a BIG NO NO!

I went down the fishoilene, primer and multi-coat epoxy trip this time.
I have plastered many, many, many coats and everything was allowed to cure over many months before the next coat.

I still do get an occasional chip, but an inspection every now and again after a bit of a wipe down with a dampened rag usually shows them up for a dab of fishoil.

I found using a contrasting coloured primer helps identify chips....... then the fishoil gives the location away for future re-coats......

I am pondering using the POR 15 on the direct line of fire stuff - wheel-arches and exposed sub-frame members - yet to follow up on that.
I have had excellent reports on POR 15 although it is quite expensive I'm told.

Just me, but I would seriously suggest you fully seal the metal before putting any body deadener/sealer over anything..

frats,
Rosco

ps - there, that wasn't so bad after all - you got the mini version this time.

ekdave1962 · Post by **ekdave1962** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 8:22 pm

hi rossco,

thanks for your detailed reply .. YES its a hadfield chassis ..

yeah the old girl was in deperate need of tlc only had it 6 weeks have replace right outer sill patial inner 60 mm of A and B colunms front sub frame mount front floor .. still to go inner and outer dog legs and then the same on left side .. not to mention the fist size holes in the fire wall rusted right out .. then the ususal damage to beaver .. and around back and front screens some minor rust in rear floor and im sure there more to find yet .. luckly car came with most of the part for repairs .. to be honest it should have been scrapped but i enjoy the challange of takling things i have not done before .. keeps me out of trouble .. lol ..

now back to the topic .. deadener

Im was planning to etch coat the use a spray deadener .. was just wondering how u got the deadener to stick to the fishoil ?

Hmm maybe i should go back to plan B black gloss at least it will be easy to see and problems arising .. and east to touch up .. ?

Thanks D

rosco · Post by **rosco** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 8:42 pm

Hi Dave,
it has often been said to me that the more you write, the less people read.....
guess I'm guilty again?

I originally painted deadener onto the car as I found it.

I have since removed all (except for inside of boot - half way now) and worked my way front to back of the whole car over probably five years.
Down to shiny steel, removing damage from deadener.
Fishoil to shiny steel, then kill-rust primer (two/three coats) then coat after coat after.......... think you get the message of White Knight Hammered Metal epoxy top coats............ some parts probably have six to ten coats.
Did the same with the entire inner of the vehicle - except for visible parts.
Wattyl Fishoilene will go off - eventually. It doesn't ever harden, but after a month in warm weather (or six in cold/damp) it will end up as a semi-cured coating which (and many people will tell you won't) can be primed and top coated.

I have not applied body deadener to fishoilene. In fact when I get the remainder of that black evil out of the boot, my car will again be free of the blasted stuff............ I'm sorry Dave, I now have a hatred for it.

It is good for what it is designed for. How many people intend to keep a limited life vehicle for ten years..............

When it comes to your car Dave, I suppose you have to do what you consider appropriate. For some it's body deadener, for others it's a bit more regular checking after running over loose ground.
I wouldn't suggest what you should do, but I can certainly tell you what I have experienced............

hope that clarifies the fish-oil?

I would still suggest having a serious look at POR 15........... and will watch with keen interest any posts which mention it.

Love what you've done, great to think that this one didn't go to Simsmetal............ looking forward to eyeballing the Phoenix..........

frats,
Rosco

karsten · Post by **karsten** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:16 pm

im at this stage and spent three weeks washing scrayping,washing scrayping under my car and now have found floor spotless i must say but have been stumped on what to spray it with and i did spray test section with fish oil left for a few days and then wiped with rag and sprayed deadner over it,but it stuck good,to my surprise but is semi soft i guess that fish oil and deadner mix, as bitch,of,mine is a oil base product that can be thined with diesel or oil , any light oil basicly and it seems ok but im now thinking enamel under car and then fish oil in a few months so enamel can cure as enamel is a oil base paint and it will sink in to any corrosive nastys and stop it with the oil in the paint and then saturate the hole lot with fish oil and repeate mabye yearly as my hydro allways leaked a bit and wet the floor over millenia with oil, and had next to no rust thanks to the oil ,, and also if you have a original fb or ek manual or can get one to read it tells you all about body lube and lube periods i was impressed whith its in depth detail on protective maintanance of your cars body cavity wax periods and stuff. not like new cars manuals that say if malfunction acurres replace whole car in three years time

im sure that fords say that on there key ring these days ,< mustangs are exsempt from that comment and maybe customlines

blue ute · Post by **blue ute** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 11:56 am

karsten
Are you trying to prevent or convert rust, coz that would depend on what product you go for.
A rust preventer won't cure & a converter won't prevent rust (only on treated area).
I used a converter called Fertan on a bonnet round 4 yrs ago without any topcoat (just Fertan) & so far the surface rust has not re appeared, so I'm thinking that after applying a top coat would be spot on.

oops !!!!
I should have mentioned my bonnet is not on the car but in a garden shed fill of bits

rosco · Post by **rosco** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 4:07 pm

Hi again,
relax - short this time (or Not)

Karsten, as Blue Ute mentions - if you are trying to convert, you are best leaving it bare steel or very well sanded/wire-wheeled/sand blasted rust.
The converter must have free access to the problem - if you interfere in this process by introducing a second agent it will only slow or even possibly prevent the converter functioning.

Fishoil is great stuff for slowing things down - I don't believe it will stop it completely but if later sealed (primer/top coats etc on both sides of the metal) you are taking two of the necessary elements away which rust must have to flourish - those being moisture and oxygen.

I have only tried the two methods as previously mentioned, I'm sure others have further suggestions. I know of one person who had their shell dipped - and then galvanised......... there can be no doubt left aftrer that - I don't know any more about this vehicle but am a little concerned at how the panels were treated after zinc was applied and what the final finish was like .......

I also believe if you want to fishoil, do it prior to any further process....... as mentioned, it will semi-cure - in time, sometimes a long time.
I know in the cooler months when I applied primer to some of mine, if it was still active it penetrated the primer and came to the surface.............it didn't need further treatment, just more time and another coat of primer - very happy with results since doing it four/five years ago. No further problems with our little blister friends.............

frats,
Rosco

karsten · Post by **karsten** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 7:23 pm

hey guys im mostly tring to prevent it as my floor is good there was some blisters in back left floor but wire brush on grinder and there gone, i did use an epoxy two pack 5 or 6 years back on inside and most of it is ok bare that little bit ,but i used a converter / primer in one from repco and now im gonna paint it all again , the old man is a painter by trade and he said that oil base would maybe help inhibit any rust but im always willing to listen to all and consider any suggestions