TIG welding

Includes sheet metal, rubbers, bumpers, badges and rust repairs.

Moderators: reidy, Blacky

rosco
Posts: 2569
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 8:34 pm
State: VIC
Location: Melbourne

TIG welding

Post by rosco »

Hi folk,
On suggestion, I am opening up a thread in the forum on TIG welding... I'm not good at it, and in the hope of others who are likewise challenged with this black art or who are considering attempt or purchase - this thread may be informative, if not invaluable.

A kind member has offered to help with the use of my machine, and I will draw on the 30 plus years experience he has in boilermaking and welding... I am hoping he will contribute heavily to this thread as we add to it.

I have a "Cigweld" 200A AC/DC Transtig machine - purchased new on 19 Mar, 2009.
I bought it mainly to weld thin steel sheet - a looming FJ ute project, plus a rusted section in my little 1977 Corona front guard dog leg was sufficient justification to spend the $4k.... I have always been one for going the next level, the AC/DC expense being for stainless and aluminium -which this machine is suited to.

This machine is also more than capable of being used as a simple "arc" or "stick" welder, although I have not done so - I am next to useless with stick welding - I either burn holes into everything I touch, or weld the electrode into the work. I am much better with Mig, but am gaining ground with Tig as well.

Pix... but more to come as I attempt to explain the varying parameters and what they are set at for differing types of welds.


001 TIG mail.jpg
001 TIG mail.jpg (125.1 KiB) Viewed 962 times


This is the machine I have - you can see that it is relatively small in size, at rear is my laptop from which all members here on the forum suffer my long winded posts..

One thing I noted as soon as I opened up the very well made cover-bag it comes with - is the size of the cabling for both "work" and "electrode" leads... they are huge, compared to that of my MIG... which is a 215A machine.
My suspicion is that when welding aluminium (as I have read) - the machine needs to be run at very high amps on AC.. we'll get to this a bit later.



002 Tig panel mail.jpg
002 Tig panel mail.jpg (127.96 KiB) Viewed 962 times



This is the main panel - when first I saw this, the amount of variables confused the heck out of me... there were "options".... unlike the MIG, which only had the three basic setting options (Coarse, fine volatages and wire speed ((amps)) ).. this panel had a sequence of 13 steps from start to finish.... almost all of them took a bit of getting my head around.
Once I learned that there was in fact a "flow chart" - from left to right, these steps and settings began to make sense.... how to adjust or set them with finesse is still very much beyond my ability.

I'll run through them in future posts, but will add two of them here which will sort of make a start and finish to making a weld...

If you look at the horizontal dotted line above the left and right cursor arrows, at left you can see "pre-flow" - and at the other end "post-flow".
These are where the time adjustment for Argon gas is made. It can be adjusted to increase or decrease the amount of time that the gas flows to the nozzle of the Tig gun so that shielding gas protects the weld both before the arc is started - and after it has stopped.
This allows up to 1 second pre-flow and up to 60 seconds post flow.

Altering these amounts is made by first pressing the cursor arrows until a little red LED shows up in the relative "dot" of the step, and then by the rotating the blue adjustment knob to add or subtract to the displayed numbers in the digital read-out (I need to take a pic of this when the machine is operating).

We'll get to the next steps and what they do in a series of posts... but I must add here, every aspect of each of the 13 steps is adjustable - both individually and also in conjunction with each other - hence the confusion when confronted with so many options on the main panel.

As we go through this thread and I do some welding, I will endeavor to add pix after making welds to show the issues which arise out of both incorrect settings and techniques with using the Tig torch. I will also endeavor to include the settings which were used when welding to denote the difference to the weld when changed from one to another setting.

I was amazed at how low this machine could be set up... not much more than a soldering iron - in some of my initial work with very thin steel, through my helmet I saw the "arc" hitting the steel... but nothing actually happened other than a dim "glow" on the surface.
With this very low output ability, I will take full advantage of this when I gain some practice - it will lend itself very well to my modeling hobbies - where I will attempt to weld tin-plate instead of the usual soldering... maybe even some white metal... and we all know that our beloved buses have plenty of that.. don't hold your breath, it is not going to be attempted anytime soon - if indeed at all.....

At the other end of the scale - it has the ability to weld up to 1/4" steel or 3/16" aluminium... at its maximum of 200 amps.

Electrode selection is another chapter to be explained. When I bought this machine, "Thoriated" electrodes were readily available.. in fact, they were the preferred welder's choice. This is not so today - they were banned from sale due to the radioactive properties of them. I have quite a number of varying Thoriated electrodes (they have a red tip band on the base of them).

We have a number of differing electrode materials - we'll get to these as posts continue.

As far as I am aware, pure Argon is the only suitable shielding gas..

At present, I understand most of the settings and can produce welds - but adjusting them to varying metal thicknesses and types of metals remains very much a hit and miss occurrence.

My most recent additional purchases have been a rod feeder and also a set of clear Pyrex nozzles for the gun... yet to be used.

Ok folk, so we have made a start.

Please feel most welcome to chime in with comments/suggestions/posts/pix - or requests for info/pix.

I would like to believe that this is not "my" thread - but hopefully a thread for all of us to refer and add to.

frats,
Rosco
User avatar
Harv
Posts: 5502
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:00 pm
State: NSW
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: TIG welding

Post by Harv »

rosco wrote: Thu Apr 09, 2020 10:53 amI am next to useless with stick welding - I either burn holes into everything I touch, or weld the electrode into the work.
That's what the welding hammer is for... stick in one hand, hammer in the other. Use the hammer to knock the electrode off as you repeatedly fuse it into the job :lol: :mrgreen: The inspectors at work keep threatening to send me home with test plates so they can get a giggle at my welding.

30 years ago I wanted a welder. My boilermaker brother-in-law convinced me I needed a stick, as if I bought a MIG I would never learn to weld properly. He forgot to tell me I would never learn to weld properly anyway. I have read all the theory in the world, but it is no match for guidance from guys who weld for a living. Frustrates me that I haven't got the time to take a tech course to learn properly, or to practice enough to get better with the stick.

A fancy self-darkening helmet worked wonders, as did a few hours coaching from the brother-in-law. Still need a lot more though.

Watching this thread with interest.

Cheers,
Harv
327 Chev EK wagon, original EK ute for Number 1 Daughter, an FB sedan meth monster project and a BB/MD grey motored FED.
TAZ
Posts: 362
Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2015 9:32 pm
State: TAS
Location: hobart

Re: TIG welding

Post by TAZ »

Hi Rosco,

I will get some.information emailed to you and posted here over Easter.

Those machines are the last of the quality CIG machines that were built. They have gone downhill these days so good purchase.

You can still buy Thoriated electrodes easily. BOC have them.

Now before we get to striking an arc we will go through the process of selecting the correct electrode for the material being welded and how to sharpen them.

There are quite a few settings that you will never use so I think we will concentrate on the main setti gs as this should give users enough confidence to them play with the more advanced features.

Cheers, Taz
rosco
Posts: 2569
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 8:34 pm
State: VIC
Location: Melbourne

Re: TIG welding

Post by rosco »

Thanks Taz,
looking forward to you running this course.... and yes, I accept that my machine has too many features for "basic" welding... which ones to knock out are not yet known...but, with your guidance - I'm sure we'll get to them...

Welcome aboard, Harv and Taz... mystery tour #1 departing soon...

frats,
Rosco
User avatar
Errol62
Posts: 10916
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2014 2:44 pm
State: SA
Location: Adelaide

Re: TIG welding

Post by Errol62 »

Tell us more Simon.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

getting my FB ute on the road
EK van on rotisserie
rosco
Posts: 2569
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 8:34 pm
State: VIC
Location: Melbourne

Re: TIG welding

Post by rosco »

Welcome aboard, Clay...
This thread may have been of greater use before many of the current builds started to get paint.... always time for a future build, but it probably smarts like a new toothache once you walk out the door of the dentists .... well, for a while yet anyway.....

frats,
Rosco
User avatar
Wrongway Roger
Posts: 738
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2014 7:06 pm
State: SA
Location: Adelaide

Re: TIG welding

Post by Wrongway Roger »

Hi guys,
I'm well into the rebuild of the ute.
I wish I had a TIG welder as the MIG and oxy are doing the job but for sheet metal way to much heat.
The copper heat sink is working as is the stitch method.

I will be following this topic with a view to purchase a TIG welder down the track, pending the Minister of Finance's approval.
Cheers,
Roger
There is a right way and a wrong way and then there is my way which is usually the long way.
User avatar
FireKraka
Posts: 2673
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:12 am
State: WA
Location: Serpentine, WA

Re: TIG welding

Post by FireKraka »

I would really love to be able to TIG I have a plasma cutter that can also do TIG so I will be reading this thread with interest.
Will post a photo of my machine when I get a chance to take one.
Neil
Member of WA FB/EK Car Club
Frankenstein EK V6 Ute
The Reverend FB Station Wagon Project
1950's Commer Light Truck (2.5 Ton)
User avatar
Errol62
Posts: 10916
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2014 2:44 pm
State: SA
Location: Adelaide

Re: TIG welding

Post by Errol62 »

rosco wrote:Welcome aboard, Clay...
This thread may have been of greater use before many of the current builds started to get paint.... always time for a future build, but it probably smarts like a new toothache once you walk out the door of the dentists .... well, for a while yet anyway.....

frats,
Rosco
The ute didn’t need a lot of work compared to the EK van I’ve got on the back burner Rosco, so I’m still hungry mate.


FB ute fixer upper, EK van on rotisserie
getting my FB ute on the road
EK van on rotisserie
rosco
Posts: 2569
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 8:34 pm
State: VIC
Location: Melbourne

Re: TIG welding

Post by rosco »

Welcome aboard, Roger and Neil.... I'm hoping we can all share in this thread.
I was going to set up my machine and take some pix yesterday - pending bad weather took precedence in getting the house property set up.

Hope to get the machine out tomorrow and take some pix.. will try and get some of a little practice session I have planned on some 1.0 mm steel... butt joint... will take notes on settings used and resultant pix of welds... play time, nothing serious (yet).

I really want to be able to weld aluminium.. one of the big attractions to getting this machine.. I've had one go and failed miserably...
My machine has the ability to AC weld... and I can set parameters for both "clean" and "penetrate"... I had them set at 50/50... and believe I had too much "clean" and not enough "penetrate"... also, I can change the "frequency"... I had that down to low as well....

Will continue with welding mild steel for now - until I get a feel for the arc and "puddle"... love to be able to get some movie - but simply can't find a way to position a camera inside a spare welding helmet.. be good if I could...

My helmet is pretty much top of the line... it is auto darkening, with adjustment for both sensitivity and shade.... Light welding with Tig only requires light shading, but sensitivity has to be turned up or it won't darken..
I also have the ability to fit optical correcting lenses.. which I have - these made an awful lot of difference to me being able to "see" the weld pool.

I am yet to learn to "stack the dimes"... which is what I am reading at present. If you look at a professional welder's job - you can see these "dimes" all stacked one on top of each other as the weld progresses... using the rod to do this is yet beyond me... that rod gets me into more trouble than Ned Kelly at present.... I have hit the electrode just so many times with it.. requiring re-sharpening... been through a lot of electrodes so far, for very little output...

I have been told to use "brake cleaner" in aerosol form to prepare work.... after filing/sanding/grinding down the metal... Supergas put me onto that one...

We'll wait for Simon to come on board - and I'll follow his direction... looking forward to being able to use this machine - it's been simply wasted in the time that I've had it...

Now have both Mig (Argoshield) and Tig (Argon) gas bottles... without rent (thanks Bunnings).. so, I'm set up to do some welding projects soon....

The other thing I haven't yet mentioned is gloves. With Mig, my gloves are heavy duty gauntlet types and thick.. I've had them quite hot when doing big welds....
With Tig, I have much smaller and thinner gloves.... they allow me to "feel" and handle the filler rod much easier.

I'll take some pix of both pairs tomorrow when I set everything up.

Oh, forgot to mention - my fingers... coming good. hand is still swollen, but only after work.... I should be able to get the Tig gloves on by tomorrow - can't get one of the fingers into a glove for now....

frats,
Rosco
User avatar
Errol62
Posts: 10916
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2014 2:44 pm
State: SA
Location: Adelaide

Re: TIG welding

Post by Errol62 »

I use the tig gloves with the mig, when I even use gloves that is. A lot of the time I don’t even use a mask when spotting, just line it up, close eyes and gently squeeze. I have a lot of trouble seeing the work.


FB ute fixer upper, EK van on rotisserie
getting my FB ute on the road
EK van on rotisserie
rosco
Posts: 2569
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 8:34 pm
State: VIC
Location: Melbourne

Re: TIG welding

Post by rosco »

Errol62 wrote: Sat Apr 11, 2020 1:15 pm when I even use gloves that is. A lot of the time I don’t even use a mask when spotting, just line it up, close eyes and gently squeeze.
Hmmmmm..... I'm old, Clay - I wish I had taken better care of myself now from when I was younger and more "tally-ho"...
Who am I to spruke about safety? (says, with two fingers still in bandages from recent event)

I found that my helmet made an awful lot of improvement to how I was able to weld... I used a "standard" helmet for some time - and struggled to find what I was welding in the darkness.... only the "arc" would light up the area sufficiently for me to find what I wanted to weld... and I was usually nowhere near the area.... have lots of "marks" on things which got hit by a "loose arrow"..

My second helmet was much better - auto darkening.. but it was a "one shot" action... light, or dark... no adjustment - no battery.
I did much better with it, but struggled when doing light (excuse pun) work... it darkened too much ...

This third helmet is simply brilliant (pun again).. the adjustment makes it easy to set up for light work or heavy welds... both with Mig and Tig.
I have let others use it - and they simply don't want to give it back...

The only thing I have been very disciplined to do, after getting caught a couple of times - is to ensure it is going to "darken".. I have left it idle for too long on occasion, and the auto shut-off function has kicked in... I now put the helmet on, go out into the light and point towards the brightest light I can find... then wave my hand over the screen a few times to make sure it will turn on... failing that, in low light - I simply press the "on" button.. the screen immediately darkens for a few seconds on doing this.

Gloves - if you are using Tig gloves, I can offer no better advice.. the ones I have are very good.... but I don't use them for Mig... I have had my heavy duty Mig gloves to the point where I have had to throw them off due to the heat build up from a big weld.... I wouldn't risk light weight Tig gloves for that sort of work.. but, as I have stated many times - I'm not a welder... most would run a weld along a joint fairly quickly... I tend to "hover" a bit until I get the pool up to what I want...... and grind all the excess off afterwards.... as mentioned, I have a 10/90 weld/grind ratio.. the "10" being the time spent welding....

frats,
Rosco
User avatar
Errol62
Posts: 10916
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2014 2:44 pm
State: SA
Location: Adelaide

Re: TIG welding

Post by Errol62 »

Boiler masker mate was working back on his own one Saturday arvo. Big lump of slag spatter went in his ear. Burned through ear drum in to throat, down his osophegus in to his stomach before it stopped travelling. He drove himself to emergency.

I was luckier. Small bit of spatter went in my ear when I was fixing rust under the ute. I shook it out and it only hurt a bit. Several days later I noticed that air was passing in to my ear if I tried to pressurise my ears, and ear was full of fluid. Doctor couldn’t see any perforation as ear canal was infected and swollen. Prescribed me an alcohol based anti-bacterial ear drop. I nearly hit the roof when I put it in my ear. Quickly shook it out and flushed with olive oil, but I had the mother of all ear aches for the evening. Next day saw the specialist who changed the medication to oil based. Later confirmed eardrum was perforated. 8 weeks later went to the audiologist, who confirmed my ear drum was healed and my hearing is excellent, for my age.


FB ute fixer upper, EK van on rotisserie
getting my FB ute on the road
EK van on rotisserie
User avatar
Harv
Posts: 5502
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:00 pm
State: NSW
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: TIG welding

Post by Harv »

I did similar. Grinding under wagon, and doing the right thing by wearing a face shield. Got out from under the car and didn't shake my hair out before taking off the face shield. Dropped a good sized sliver of steel into my eye. Went inside, dampened a cotton bud, and tried to locate it by looking in the mirror. No joy. Got Grace to take a look while I moved my eye around... the sliver was sitting on the "top" of my eye, and could only be seen if I looked all the way down. No way could I see it in a mirror. Gave 10-year-old Grace the cotton bud, some instruction, and gritted my teeth whilst looking down. She did an awesome job - just touched it so that it stuck to the cotton bud, and lifted off gently.

One of the most frightening things in the world watching a 10 year old come at you with a cotton bud.

Cheers,
Harv
327 Chev EK wagon, original EK ute for Number 1 Daughter, an FB sedan meth monster project and a BB/MD grey motored FED.
User avatar
Errol62
Posts: 10916
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2014 2:44 pm
State: SA
Location: Adelaide

Re: TIG welding

Post by Errol62 »

Hair?


FB ute fixer upper, EK van on rotisserie
getting my FB ute on the road
EK van on rotisserie
Post Reply