fbekholden.com

i used to race speedway and thats what they used to check engines way back then

Clinker42 wrote: Tue May 26, 2020 8:01 pm Well I’ve never heard of that. I just googled it, geez they got me beat every which way lol.

Yes the race car club I belong to puff test engines all the time, capacity class rules.

Many people I know have had the car registered then swap out the motors for larger ones. All is great until you come unstuck in an accident. First your insurance wipes you then you go to court to pay for all the damage and then god help you if you kill or injure someone.

It would be nice to go the larger capacity but you can make a 327 very strong with the right gear, and in some ways its a challenge to meet the rules.

Greg

EK283 wrote: Tue May 26, 2020 8:17 pm

Clinker42 wrote: Tue May 26, 2020 8:01 pm Well I’ve never heard of that. I just googled it, geez they got me beat every which way lol.

Yes the race car club I belong to puff test engines all the time, capacity class rules.

Many people I know have had the car registered then swap out the motors for larger ones. All is great until you come unstuck in an accident. First your insurance wipes you then you go to court to pay for all the damage and then god help you if you kill or injure someone.

It would be nice to go the larger capacity but you can make a 327 very strong with the right gear, and in some ways its a challenge to meet the rules.

Greg

Yep, that's the way I thought too. I am confident my car is above board, and if I manage to wipe out a Ferrari or hurt someone then the insurance is covered. I've seen a couple of (other blokes) court battles go really, really ugly and am not keen to repeat that.

When I went to engineer the car, the engineer was pedantic (some are less so). He looked at the engine, and asked how it was built. It's a 350 block with a 327 crank. His response was that the heads had to come off, and he wanted to verify stroke (smart boy... he has been burnt before). I produced the build sheet, and was lucky that he knew (and trusted) the engine builder. No need to remove heads.

Not too hard to get grunt out of a 327 with modern internals and heads. I've managed to get just over 300kW at the crank, and the thing is still quite driveable on pump fuel. Damn noisy mind you, but you can't have everything

Cheers,
Harv

Harv wrote: Tue May 26, 2020 8:26 pm

EK283 wrote: Tue May 26, 2020 8:17 pm

Clinker42 wrote: Tue May 26, 2020 8:01 pm Well I’ve never heard of that. I just googled it, geez they got me beat every which way lol.

Yes the race car club I belong to puff test engines all the time, capacity class rules.

Many people I know have had the car registered then swap out the motors for larger ones. All is great until you come unstuck in an accident. First your insurance wipes you then you go to court to pay for all the damage and then god help you if you kill or injure someone.

It would be nice to go the larger capacity but you can make a 327 very strong with the right gear, and in some ways its a challenge to meet the rules.

Greg

Yep, that's the way I thought too. I am confident my car is above board, and if I manage to wipe out a Ferrari or hurt someone then the insurance is covered. I've seen a couple of (other blokes) court battles go really, really ugly and am not keen to repeat that.

When I went to engineer the car, the engineer was pedantic (some are less so). He looked at the engine, and asked how it was built. It's a 350 block with a 327 crank. His response was that the heads had to come off, and he wanted to verify stroke (smart boy... he has been burnt before). I produced the build sheet, and was lucky that he knew (and trusted) the engine builder. No need to remove heads.

Not too hard to get grunt out of a 327 with modern internals and heads. I've managed to get just over 300kW at the crank, and the thing is still quite driveable on pump fuel. Damn noisy mind you, but you can't have everything

Cheers,
Harv

Good stuff Harv, so that's about 320 horses on the wheels not bad at all.

I know its a race car but my little 283 chev has 300 on the wheels with standard crank and small valve fuellies. So imagine longer rods, alloy heads and a bit of modern carb body fuel injection, another 50Hp up could be achieved no problem.

Greg

Clinker42 wrote:Taz, are you still going with the project. I have a question regarding the Engineer approval for the LS1. vsb14 states weight in KGS X 5 = CC for max engine size. EK 225 2490 lbs which is 1129.445 kgs. so 1129.445 x 5 = 5,647 ccs. The LS1 is 5.665 ccs.
did your engineer approve it because its so close it doesn't matter or di you satisfy the requirement some other way.
Ive just been knocked back for the LS1 engine due to that plus it then didn't meet the tonnage x 2 = max kw allowance.

thanks Trev

Not wanting to get into debates but this is what I presented and was accepted by my engineer.

I took the weight of a standard EK and added the extra weight from the automatic gearbox to it. Weights provided on all spec sheets are for the manual gearbox. This gave me the weight of 1165. Times that by .5 and you get 5825 c.c



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So Boys, I have this sitting in the shed, it’s a 308, do you think it will pass the engineers test lol

Simon,

I think your on to something here !!!!

If only the hydro weight was printed somewhere that would be hard for an Engineer to knock it back.

Does anyone have a an original print version of the EK hydro curb weight?

Regards Greg

Geez that would be handy if there was some official document that listed that weight. Then it’s an automatic tick of approval.

EK283 wrote: Tue May 26, 2020 9:21 pm Simon,

I think your on to something here !!!!

If only the hydro weight was printed somewhere that would be hard for an Engineer to knock it back.

Does anyone have a an original print version of the EK hydro curb weight?

Regards Greg

From memory I just search and found the the original hydro then did the math. Because I presented in a fully written report the engineer never questioned the figures.

Here it is;

1961 Holden Special Sedan Hydramatic (56 kW / 76 PS / 75 hp) (since May 1961 for Australia ) specs review
https://www.automobile-catalog.com/car/ ... matic.html

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Taz, you are a legend. Off to the engineer tomorrow armed with that info. Fingers crossed it’s accepted.

Thanks

That would be a very, very cool way to spec the car . I think you have finally found the loophole that will unlock 350 Chevs back in FB/EKs.

Be wary that some state registration bodies have their own values for car weights (Victoria is notorious). They may not trust a website.

Most of the values (e.g. the 2490lb curb weight) get taken from the factory workshop manual. It makes no reference to gearbox type. The FB manual shows 2494lb. FBs did not have hydros, so that is wieght with a crashbox. I bet the 2490lb shown in the EK workshop manual is not a hydro weight either (it is too close to 2494lb).

Cheers,
Harv

EK283 wrote:Hi Simon,

Great work I must say.

In my dealings with chrome plating the guys want a perfect finish so they can dip and collect the folding stuff.

The better you get the steel for them the better the job will turn out. They do grind and polish but that takes time and money. With your talent you should be able to get them pretty good, file finish would net great results.

Greg

How am I looking Greg? The right hand side as a small section that you can just get your finger nail in. I was not sure if the copper/chrome plating would fill that ? Or do I file and sand some more?

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Simon that's great.

I have seen the guys work the bars and they use belt sanders to do it. They will probably go over your work but now its not labour intensive so you will save some money.

Unfortunately most business these days just want to grab the dough for little effort, seems that way in Sydney anyway.

Great work as usual.

Greg

The EK manual doesn't list the kerb weight of automatics, but the EJ shop manual does. And we can work backwards from there.

EJ Standard sedan: auto 2567 lb, manual 2492 lb. Auto is 75 lb heavier.
EJ Special sedan: auto 2571 lb, manual 2496 lb. Auto is 75 lb heavier.

Same weight difference for station wagons.

In both EK and EJ, the dry weight of the grey motor with clutch is 374 lb.
The EJ gearbox is slightly lighter than the EK gearbox.
EJ engine plus crashbox: 440 lbs. Thus EJ crashbox weighs 66 lb.
EK engine plus crashbox: 454 lb. Thus EK crashbox weighs 80 lb. (That's why I'm finding it difficult these days to drop out a grey motor gearbox compared with 35 years ago.)

So a first guess at the weight of a Hydro is 66+75 = 141 lb.

And an EK will weigh 60 lb more with a Hydro (141-80), but then you'd have to add a few pounds for the more heavily braced EK hydro body.

My best guess at the kerb weight of an EK/225A is 2550 lb.

Rob