Thanks Thommo,
some things are just too good to be kept going........ guess you've got something which is now unique - hope you never change them.
DR - thanks - will try to contact Gazrat - get some feedback from him.
Harko - yes, Rachelle gets quite a rave on the Dragway site rave.
Have sent a post to the company - hope they get in touch soon - will post up what I learn.
DNA - thanks for the link - good luck with your sale.
No news current from previous post.
Dee
dragways
update
Ok everyone - listen up......
Dragways and our cars....... at bedtime last night - they were off the table for me....... I don't want to go bashing out my guards to get them to fit.
I have done a lot of research into these wheels - I really love them and want to fit them oh so much - but I can't.. unless I bash the heck out of my inner guards and roll up the lips of the outer guards..
for those of you who have standard FB/EK front ends - you're in a much better shape to fit these than those of us who have HR disc fronts....... but - there's more....
From what I can understand - it is the size, angle and placement of the spoke which causes all the grief - but not the spoke itself...
Read that back - and I'll tell you why this is important to understand.
Because the spoke angle runs outwards to the rim - the rim has to sit further out towards the inside of your mudguards - hope this makes sense.
There is an outer rim width of around 2" - where the tyre fits inside the edge of the rim.
I'm going slow here - because I had to take it in slowly..
The dragway centre is measured from the inner mounting face of the wheel - this is where it contacts your brake drum or disc rotor - the place where the wheel fits hard up against.
Now if you can understand that from the bolt up face to the outer edge of the rim has to be a fair amount - this means you need a lot of clearance from the bolt up face to the inside of your guard.
What the people at Dragway gave me was for the classic 5 spoke wheel (and it doesn't matter whether it's 13", 14" or even 15") you must have a minimum clearance of 5" - minimum - don't forget this is the rim edge - it does not include any extension outwards by the tyre..
The measurement they gave me from the bolt up face to the outer rim of the wheel is 4 3/8ths inches - this allows 5/8 inch for tyre extension and flex of the spring during cornering - but of course this sort of isn't right as I think the wheel will be angled inwards if you are cornering hard on that side and if anything the spring will also push in towards the centre of the car.
If you look under your rear guards - you will find that it is not the edge of the body wrap under lip which is going to cause grief - it is the inner guard - the bit where there is a cavity between the body and the hidden side of your wheelarch in the boot.
As the wheel travels upwards (wheel up into guard) it will make contact with this inner guard much closer than the edge you think you just have to roll up - take a peek if you doubt me..
I have looked and looked at photos of our cars with dragways on them..... you will now realise that many choose to stay with 13" rims and keep them jacked up.
I feel now that any which have been lowered must have some provision made to allow for travel of the wheel as it rises - this is also the case for larger than 13" rims.
I may have this all cocked up - but I am now going to abandon the idea of fitting these to my car.
There is another little player which also causes grief to those of us with HR disc front ends - the calipers...
These calipers have pistons on both sides of the rotor - there is a chunky piston cylinder which I feel will cause grief if there is insufficient clearance for the inside of the rim to pass over - this is where I'm at with it at the moment - or was this afternoon.
Another bit which concerns me is the outer edge of the upper wishbone - I don't know because I don't have wide wheels to test - but think a 6" rim will probably make contact with this wishbone.
Anything larger than 7" I also think will probably make contact with the tie-rod end....
I am hoping someone on this forum can destroy everything I have written here ...... as I said - I dearly love these wheels - but refuse to alter my car's body to fit them..
Whilst speaking with the Dragway people - they told me that there is another option - they now make a "new style" wheel - the spoke angle is almost vertical and it is a much narrower spoke.
This means that the spoke can be fitted to the rim further outwards and places the wheel rim more to the centre of the car.
This will allow more clearance to the inner guard - the figure they gave me was 3 1/2" from bolt up face to outer edge of rim.
Between the old chunky style and this new style - there is a difference of 7/8th of an inch.
This now means they recommend I have 4 1/8" clearance from the bolt up face of the wheel to the inner guard.
I haven't forgotten about this - but I have been trying to work out if I can fit them..... it's been some time since I posted this and just want to get it right - I think those watching what I am doing will appreciate the work I have put in....
And bye the way - did speak with systems engineer - in Vic he hasn't got any issues with 14 x 6 - even says he's OK with out to 9" - but track and offset have to be 1" either side of original.. talk to Dragway - they should have all that worked out and will tell you what offset to fit....
Seems it's not a case of the width of the wheel - it's the clearance to the inner guard which is going to kill my dream..
Answers please
Dee
Dragways and our cars....... at bedtime last night - they were off the table for me....... I don't want to go bashing out my guards to get them to fit.
I have done a lot of research into these wheels - I really love them and want to fit them oh so much - but I can't.. unless I bash the heck out of my inner guards and roll up the lips of the outer guards..
for those of you who have standard FB/EK front ends - you're in a much better shape to fit these than those of us who have HR disc fronts....... but - there's more....
From what I can understand - it is the size, angle and placement of the spoke which causes all the grief - but not the spoke itself...
Read that back - and I'll tell you why this is important to understand.
Because the spoke angle runs outwards to the rim - the rim has to sit further out towards the inside of your mudguards - hope this makes sense.
There is an outer rim width of around 2" - where the tyre fits inside the edge of the rim.
I'm going slow here - because I had to take it in slowly..
The dragway centre is measured from the inner mounting face of the wheel - this is where it contacts your brake drum or disc rotor - the place where the wheel fits hard up against.
Now if you can understand that from the bolt up face to the outer edge of the rim has to be a fair amount - this means you need a lot of clearance from the bolt up face to the inside of your guard.
What the people at Dragway gave me was for the classic 5 spoke wheel (and it doesn't matter whether it's 13", 14" or even 15") you must have a minimum clearance of 5" - minimum - don't forget this is the rim edge - it does not include any extension outwards by the tyre..
The measurement they gave me from the bolt up face to the outer rim of the wheel is 4 3/8ths inches - this allows 5/8 inch for tyre extension and flex of the spring during cornering - but of course this sort of isn't right as I think the wheel will be angled inwards if you are cornering hard on that side and if anything the spring will also push in towards the centre of the car.
If you look under your rear guards - you will find that it is not the edge of the body wrap under lip which is going to cause grief - it is the inner guard - the bit where there is a cavity between the body and the hidden side of your wheelarch in the boot.
As the wheel travels upwards (wheel up into guard) it will make contact with this inner guard much closer than the edge you think you just have to roll up - take a peek if you doubt me..
I have looked and looked at photos of our cars with dragways on them..... you will now realise that many choose to stay with 13" rims and keep them jacked up.
I feel now that any which have been lowered must have some provision made to allow for travel of the wheel as it rises - this is also the case for larger than 13" rims.
I may have this all cocked up - but I am now going to abandon the idea of fitting these to my car.
There is another little player which also causes grief to those of us with HR disc front ends - the calipers...
These calipers have pistons on both sides of the rotor - there is a chunky piston cylinder which I feel will cause grief if there is insufficient clearance for the inside of the rim to pass over - this is where I'm at with it at the moment - or was this afternoon.
Another bit which concerns me is the outer edge of the upper wishbone - I don't know because I don't have wide wheels to test - but think a 6" rim will probably make contact with this wishbone.
Anything larger than 7" I also think will probably make contact with the tie-rod end....
I am hoping someone on this forum can destroy everything I have written here ...... as I said - I dearly love these wheels - but refuse to alter my car's body to fit them..
Whilst speaking with the Dragway people - they told me that there is another option - they now make a "new style" wheel - the spoke angle is almost vertical and it is a much narrower spoke.
This means that the spoke can be fitted to the rim further outwards and places the wheel rim more to the centre of the car.
This will allow more clearance to the inner guard - the figure they gave me was 3 1/2" from bolt up face to outer edge of rim.
Between the old chunky style and this new style - there is a difference of 7/8th of an inch.
This now means they recommend I have 4 1/8" clearance from the bolt up face of the wheel to the inner guard.
I haven't forgotten about this - but I have been trying to work out if I can fit them..... it's been some time since I posted this and just want to get it right - I think those watching what I am doing will appreciate the work I have put in....
And bye the way - did speak with systems engineer - in Vic he hasn't got any issues with 14 x 6 - even says he's OK with out to 9" - but track and offset have to be 1" either side of original.. talk to Dragway - they should have all that worked out and will tell you what offset to fit....
Seems it's not a case of the width of the wheel - it's the clearance to the inner guard which is going to kill my dream..
Answers please
Dee
rear guards are not modified on my car and I am running 15x7 rims with a torrie diff. front guards have the shizzle knocked and cut out of them (take a look at my thread for all of the troubles I had fitting them)
At the end of the day, after paying about $560/rim on my car, plus tyres, plus machining, the look warrants the cost in my opinion. Just do it, and make sure you get some lock nuts
At the end of the day, after paying about $560/rim on my car, plus tyres, plus machining, the look warrants the cost in my opinion. Just do it, and make sure you get some lock nuts
Craig wrote: Andrew you have a red so I wouldn't race it
Re: update
Boom !!!!Dee wrote: I am hoping someone on this forum can destroy everything I have written here ...... as I said - I dearly love these wheels - but refuse to alter my car's body to fit them..
Answers please
Dee
Dont stress Dee completely destroyed it all
Sorry for the delay in response, just worked 41 days straight with last weekend being my break , just did 14 hours yesterday and 17 hour shift day before and havent had chance to get on here.
14x6 5spoke Dragway mags will fit without a problem on your EK sedan without having to modify anything to your car !!! I was running 14x6 dragway rims on my red sedan before the blower V8 build ... prior with the dragways it had Hr front end and HR rear end, running Hr discs/drums. The tyres didnt scrape, there was no issue with the calipers etc. From memory the tyre size was 205/60 14s or 210/65s (This could be wrong because it was bloody years ago when I got them and really havent paid attention with the panelvan as the wheels wont stay on it, I will try and remember to check the profiles tomorrow).
These wheels are currently used as rollers for my panelvan .... again no issue with the panelvan either when I was running round on them before the current rebuild.
Please note that these wheels look odd on the van as the van sits so high - the ride height will be adjusted once the 15s are on. These 14s sat easily on my red sedan lowered (from memory there was 2inch of rubber visible side on between the rim and the guard at the rear - rest of the tyre tucked up into the original wheel tub) with NO scrubbing on the front or rear ... unfortunately I have no shots with the red car sporting them on the computer - only real photos and I dont have a scanner.
Hope this helps, if you need more info welcome to give me call on the mobile - pm if you want the number. Not sure where your located , if in sydney come along to the next club meeting and I can bring the photos along.
Cheers Scott
[b] Member of FB-EK Holden Car Club Of NSW Inc. [/b]
Woofto Car Club Member No4
Re: update
considering they are just rollers,Mephious wrote:
could you please sell them to a enthusiastic 16 year old who is desperately trying to get his ek just the way he wants. After searching desperately I have come to realize my dream will be shattered if I can not get a hold of 14x6 dragway wheels. You are my last hope Mephious!
dont crush my dreams
clearances
Thanks Scott,
Your post has given me a fresh beam of hope, thanx..
I am stuck between a rock and a hard place with this - I now don't know if it's my car or me which is out of whack..
I have had another good look at it - and it is exactly as I found it two days ago.. I've got big (no pun intended) clearance issues with the rear - I know the rear guards and arches have never been touched - original, but with my car there is only 3 5/8" space from the brake drum mount face (even adding the 3/32" recess behind the vertical straight line of the drum.
Dragway tell me that all their classic spoke rims are fitted at the same position - that is, all protruding rim from the centre piece outwards are the same - they cannot fit the spoke any further outwards or it will "hang" over the edge of the inner rim.
What they have told me is for the original angled outwards spoke - the measurement from the mount up face on the brake drum to the outer edge of the rim is 4 1/4" then the tyre bulge extends further outwards.
They have a "new style" which has the spokes angle vertical - this puts the outer edge of the rim 3/4" further from the guard but this is a measurement of 3 1/2" - from mount up face to edge of rim.
If I take my clearance of 3 5/8" from the mount up face of the brake drum and subtract the 3 1/2" - it gives me 1/8" for the bulge of the tyre.......
I think you can see why I'm having kittens over this.....
I do hear what you are saying Scott...... and hope every other person's car is different to mine......
I can only see how this is happening on my car - I can't speak for anyone else.......
I still love these wheels - but do NOT want to belt the living daylights out of the dear old thing just to satisfy my dreams.
Thanx for the pix - your van looks so neat - I can see that you have plenty of vertical clearance - love to see the shots of your sedan.
Why would you want to change this look? - but we're all different..
I'm waiting for Rosco to put the ky-bosh on it for me.. I think he's in the same position as me - maybe it's a Melbourne production problem..
I know they spot welded up all the drains in my sills on the left hand side - that seems to be a "Melbourne thing" too..
Anyone else with a Melbourne car made these measurements?
I think FB/EK EJ/EH HD/HR drum to drum measurements are almost identical...... is this so, Dr. Terry?
Dee
Your post has given me a fresh beam of hope, thanx..
I am stuck between a rock and a hard place with this - I now don't know if it's my car or me which is out of whack..
I have had another good look at it - and it is exactly as I found it two days ago.. I've got big (no pun intended) clearance issues with the rear - I know the rear guards and arches have never been touched - original, but with my car there is only 3 5/8" space from the brake drum mount face (even adding the 3/32" recess behind the vertical straight line of the drum.
Dragway tell me that all their classic spoke rims are fitted at the same position - that is, all protruding rim from the centre piece outwards are the same - they cannot fit the spoke any further outwards or it will "hang" over the edge of the inner rim.
What they have told me is for the original angled outwards spoke - the measurement from the mount up face on the brake drum to the outer edge of the rim is 4 1/4" then the tyre bulge extends further outwards.
They have a "new style" which has the spokes angle vertical - this puts the outer edge of the rim 3/4" further from the guard but this is a measurement of 3 1/2" - from mount up face to edge of rim.
If I take my clearance of 3 5/8" from the mount up face of the brake drum and subtract the 3 1/2" - it gives me 1/8" for the bulge of the tyre.......
I think you can see why I'm having kittens over this.....
I do hear what you are saying Scott...... and hope every other person's car is different to mine......
I can only see how this is happening on my car - I can't speak for anyone else.......
I still love these wheels - but do NOT want to belt the living daylights out of the dear old thing just to satisfy my dreams.
Thanx for the pix - your van looks so neat - I can see that you have plenty of vertical clearance - love to see the shots of your sedan.
Why would you want to change this look? - but we're all different..
I'm waiting for Rosco to put the ky-bosh on it for me.. I think he's in the same position as me - maybe it's a Melbourne production problem..
I know they spot welded up all the drains in my sills on the left hand side - that seems to be a "Melbourne thing" too..
Anyone else with a Melbourne car made these measurements?
I think FB/EK EJ/EH HD/HR drum to drum measurements are almost identical...... is this so, Dr. Terry?
Dee
Re: clearances
Yes, that is correct. All early Holdens from 1948 to HR have the same width rear axle assembly, from drum face to drum face.Dee wrote: Anyone else with a Melbourne car made these measurements?
I think FB/EK EJ/EH HD/HR drum to drum measurements are almost identical...... is this so, Dr. Terry?
Dee
Dr Terry
thanx
Thanx a lot Dr T.....
I went under again today - made all the same measurements and without looking at what I got earlier came back with exactly the same figures.
I measured drum wheel face to wheel face and game up with exactly 4' 8 1/4" - don't ask me what that is in kilometers...... my back yard is still a back yard.
I also measured another spare in the shed and it's exactly the same - that was a relief..... was thinking I may have got a "ringer" sitting under the back of the old car.
I am having a lot of trouble with this - I know Mephious has said there isn't an issue - along with Mini and some others..
I just can't see how a 3 1/2" wheel - from mount face on brake drum to outer edge of rim can go into a 3 7/8" clearance with a tier fitted..
I see on many pix that are posted that cars are kept up pretty high and most only have 13" wheels..
I am wonderin if early Dragways had less than 3 1/12" measurement from mount face to outer edge of rim....? any takers..?
Have to post something up soon - will give you pix of what I been doin.
Dee
I went under again today - made all the same measurements and without looking at what I got earlier came back with exactly the same figures.
I measured drum wheel face to wheel face and game up with exactly 4' 8 1/4" - don't ask me what that is in kilometers...... my back yard is still a back yard.
I also measured another spare in the shed and it's exactly the same - that was a relief..... was thinking I may have got a "ringer" sitting under the back of the old car.
I am having a lot of trouble with this - I know Mephious has said there isn't an issue - along with Mini and some others..
I just can't see how a 3 1/2" wheel - from mount face on brake drum to outer edge of rim can go into a 3 7/8" clearance with a tier fitted..
I see on many pix that are posted that cars are kept up pretty high and most only have 13" wheels..
I am wonderin if early Dragways had less than 3 1/12" measurement from mount face to outer edge of rim....? any takers..?
Have to post something up soon - will give you pix of what I been doin.
Dee
bailing out
Anyone watching this - I'm done - not going ahead with it.
Have been in two minds with Rosco on these and have decided it is not going to happen for Dee - very sad..
Watch Rosco for posts - he's going ahead I think.. he's talking more serious with Dragway and I think something is happening between them soon.
Dee
Have been in two minds with Rosco on these and have decided it is not going to happen for Dee - very sad..
Watch Rosco for posts - he's going ahead I think.. he's talking more serious with Dragway and I think something is happening between them soon.
Dee