Hi all
The grey in my EK just decided to spit the dummy, and it's too dark out to have a look at it now so thought I'd ask for some suggestions before I get under the bonnet in the morning.
I haven't been having any issues before this...came totally out of the blue.
Basically, I started her up to go for a drive but while waiting for the engine to warm up (after running at idle for about 90 seconds) it just stopped dead. Was like I'd turned the key to stop it. No coughing, no spluttering, no missing...just dead stop. Now it won't start at all. Engine is cranking but seems to be no spark??
I have a spare coil in the garage so will swap that over in the morning and check all leads/plugs to narrow that down. I can see fuel in the filter and pump bowl, but will need to check that fuel is getting to carb.
Any suggestions as to what else I should be looking at first?
I've looked back at a few threads and these symptoms seem to have people talking of timing gear. Having never experienced that particular pain before, what should I be looking for to identify that as the problem. How will I differentiate it from the other issues it could be (hence saving me a lot of trial and error replacement/maintenance of parts)?
Thanks for any suggestions
Cheers, Scott
engine stopped dead
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Aussie Bob
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Steve
To clarify...I assume you mean to get someone to crank the ignition while I check the rockers?
ie: they turn the key, starter attempts to fire engine, but rockers fail to move = timing gear shot?
Thanks for the tip. I thought there'd be a simple way to rule it in or out.
Will be the first thing I try in the morning.
Cheers, Scott
To clarify...I assume you mean to get someone to crank the ignition while I check the rockers?
ie: they turn the key, starter attempts to fire engine, but rockers fail to move = timing gear shot?
Thanks for the tip. I thought there'd be a simple way to rule it in or out.
Will be the first thing I try in the morning.
Cheers, Scott
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Aussie Bob
- Posts: 8276
- Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:28 am
- State: NOT ENTERED
- Location: Sydney
I'd bet on electrical fault, if it stopped dead without any hint beforehand.
Check for spark at one of the plugs (I'm guessing you won't have any) and work backwards.
Unless there was a hesitation before it stopped, then it will be fuel.
Spark, fuel, compression (the 3 key areas)
Check for spark at one of the plugs (I'm guessing you won't have any) and work backwards.
Unless there was a hesitation before it stopped, then it will be fuel.
Spark, fuel, compression (the 3 key areas)
Last edited by Finny on Thu Aug 27, 2009 9:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
IT's LIKE WATCHING DRUNK MONKEYS TRYING TO HUMP A FOOTBALL.
You're in good hands here Scott.... there's a mountain of people here who know this stuff...... and others will learn as you walk us through this.......
Keep going......
We all tend to jump to conclusions when an engine fails....... try not to.....
Whenever an engine fails - try to remember the last thing either it or you were doing..... you were idling - I would expect that it would be highly unlikely for the timing gear to "shear" some teeth at idling speed..... but...
I understand your engine was running smoothly when it stopped, and there is every chance that fuel is not the issue..... but I'll throw up my initial procedure for anyone who wants to copy it to paper...... and modify it if others want to improve/change/comment.....
My procedure....
Pre-check.....
Check thel leads are connected both sides of coil and the lead from the coil down to the distributor are in place and secure - give them a "wiggle" to check.... try to start it again.....
Get a dry, clean cloth (yes, you carry one - don't you?) out of the boot and clean all terminals of the coil and distributor.
Check the battery terminals are clean and tight at both ends - engine and battery - give them a good "wiggle" and check the leads are not broken "inside"...
I do realise that if your engine is cranking over - this is not the problem..... put a procedure is a good habit to get into...... adding more to it covers more but makes it harder to remember.....
Look into the fuel bowl of the fuel pump and see if it is filled to the level of the gauze filter.
Try to start it again.
Deeper........
1/-
Fuel....
Take off air cleaner - pump carby (only a couple of times) - and see if it squirts out of the nozzle against the wall of the carb - this will show if fuel is getting to engine..
2/-
Next - look for spark - take off a plug lead - get some one to crank engine and (with a pair of insulated pliers) hold the lead about a half inch from the block (or head)..... should see a nice blue spark jump across......
I'd hesitate to move ignition timing until making a few quick checks - timing will require a bit of work.......
3/-
Mechanical.....
To check the timing gear - you will find that your oil light will normally go out when cranking for a short period of time.
In the case of a "spent" timing gear - the first thing you will notice is that the engine almost races as you crank it over.
If this is the case - take off the rocker cover breather and spin it over - you should see the valves move - if your on your own - put it in neutral (or park) and make sure the vehicle is not going to move - turn the engine over by hand - with a grey, you should be able to do this gently by pulling a fan blade whilst holding slight pressure on the fan belt....
If your valves are moving, I'd go back to ignition or fuel.
4/-
If all seems OK so far - then it will most likely be either ignition timing is out (for some strange reason) or the fuel is "sour" or plugs are wet........
If it is "wet" - it may be that the engine is flooded but you should have heard it getting pretty rough before it died...... sort of "spluttering to death" and a lot of black smoke out the back........ (I note that you stated this was not the case.... but for my procedure).
Pull a plug and see if it is saturated.....
If it is - remove them all and dry them - don't put them straight back in - but spin the engine over for thirty seconds or so - and for goodness sake push that choke knob in first .... and keep your foot of the throttle.......
Put them back in - connect leads and push the throttle down about half way - only once and hold it there.........
Try and start it and as soon as it runs smoothly - let it go back to idle.
If it dies again because it is flooding - you've got a carby problem and will need to investigate.......
If your plugs are all wet and you know the fuel to be fresh - there may be a chance that the carb float needle and seat is either stuck open, has rubbish holding it open or the float is stuck down.......
5/-
Back to ignition....... and for the cost of one of these nowadays..... I believe anyone with points in a car should carry one in the boot........
- a TIMING LIGHT ......
Simply put - it tells you when the spark from the distributor "fires" off when pointed at a mark on the flywheel.......
It is also a very good way of quickly finding out if your ignition system is at least putting out a spark......
If the connections to the coil and distributor are intact but still no spark - I'd pull off the distributor cover and have a good look inside.....
There is a "button" in the distributor cover which is spring loaded - it can happen that this fails - just give it a wipe and check that it springs back out if pushed in.
Check the rotor button is "engaged" - they can break and spin around on the shaft - this is extremely rare.
Check the end of the rotor button - for heavy oxidisation or broken/worn end..... not likely, but check it anyway.
Check the inside of the distributor cap - for badly worn terminals - this is highly unlikely as they would not all fail at once..... unless the rotor actually came into contact with them......
Now we get to the tricky bit..... the points .... yes, those things that people shudder when you first mention them....... relax - they've been around for years and with our old jalopies will be for years to come.....
What we want to do is take a good look at the opening gap between the set..... a few things will make them fail....
1 - wet
2 - dirty/oily
3 - burned
4 - out of adjustment
5 - and this one is extremely rare - but I did suffer it - the braided wire from the base of the point plate to the body of the distributor broken.
1 - wet - dry them out with your CLEAN RAG especially between the faces.
2 - dirty/oily - again - clean rag - the faces and surrounding area has to be clean or the small "spark" wont jump across where it is needed.
3 - burned - you will see both faces badly oxidised and either a "build up" or burned away look on them...... in this case, the car's performance would probably have started to show signs of something amiss...... not starting as readily as it should, back-firing when over-running the engine down hill or "knocking" when putting the engine under full load at low speed (not that this should ever be done)
In the following - if on the road - do NOT loosen the screw holding the points in position - if you do not have a set of "feeler gauges" or timing light - you will have the devil's own time of trying to get this gap set again...... you can "clean" them up simply by rotating the engine so that the points are "closed" and gently prise them apart with your finger nail or screwdriver......
You will need to "clean up" the faces to get it going - a "points file" or an icy pole stick wrapped with some fine emery or wet and dry should at least get it going....... remember here my suggestion - TIMING LIGHT.
Whenever you alter this gap between the faces of those points - you ARE going to change the timing of the engine....... bigger gap - timing "retarded" - smaller gap - engine "advanced"
A TIMING LIGHT will permit you to adjust the distributor so that it "fires" when the light flashes on the ball on the flywheel........
When you clean the points - don't go overboard - you just need to get a flush/parallel pair of faces which open cleanly for the coil to get its signal to "fire".....
4/- out of adjustment - it would be unlikely for and engine to "suddenly" fail because of this - unless something came "loose"......
I suppose, they could be running on the very "limit" of adjustment then fail..... but you would notice the vehicle being "off song" well before it failed......
If you have just "cleaned" up your points and you don't have a timing light...... providing you haven't taken off a huge amount of the point contacts - the engine should start if this was the falult....... or show signs that it wants to.......
If you consider that "removing" the surface of the points will result in making them open later...... you would need to "advance" the distributor slightly more to correct this...... but, and I cannot stress this enough..... it would be very minimal - and should not really make a great difference as to whether the engine starts or not.....
If you loosen anything off and start to play with it.... you could very well end up "timing" it well out of range.......
This procedure is best done in your garage with feeler gauges and a timing light...... a "dwell" meter is also a good investment - but I'm not going into this here.........
5/- broken earth wire ... when you take off the distributor cap - just take a peek down at the base plate where the points are - you will see a bare braided copper wire which connects the base plate to the inside of the distributor body - check that it hasn't broken - this will definitely "fail" the ignition system..... you rarely hear of it happening but I have suffered this (and the RACV man who came to my rescue did not find it........and could only offer for me to be towed to a garage..... many, many years ago......) - I did find it - but purely by accident..... and right in front of his eyes........ to his shock, horror, disbelief and embarassment......
enough - you've lost interest by now... surely...?
Let me know if you need more..... I'd be disappointed if you don't either get satisfaction from one of the above..... or at least find that one of the tests reveals a fault......
frats,
Rosco
Keep going......
We all tend to jump to conclusions when an engine fails....... try not to.....
Whenever an engine fails - try to remember the last thing either it or you were doing..... you were idling - I would expect that it would be highly unlikely for the timing gear to "shear" some teeth at idling speed..... but...
I understand your engine was running smoothly when it stopped, and there is every chance that fuel is not the issue..... but I'll throw up my initial procedure for anyone who wants to copy it to paper...... and modify it if others want to improve/change/comment.....
My procedure....
Pre-check.....
Check thel leads are connected both sides of coil and the lead from the coil down to the distributor are in place and secure - give them a "wiggle" to check.... try to start it again.....
Get a dry, clean cloth (yes, you carry one - don't you?) out of the boot and clean all terminals of the coil and distributor.
Check the battery terminals are clean and tight at both ends - engine and battery - give them a good "wiggle" and check the leads are not broken "inside"...
I do realise that if your engine is cranking over - this is not the problem..... put a procedure is a good habit to get into...... adding more to it covers more but makes it harder to remember.....
Look into the fuel bowl of the fuel pump and see if it is filled to the level of the gauze filter.
Try to start it again.
Deeper........
1/-
Fuel....
Take off air cleaner - pump carby (only a couple of times) - and see if it squirts out of the nozzle against the wall of the carb - this will show if fuel is getting to engine..
2/-
Next - look for spark - take off a plug lead - get some one to crank engine and (with a pair of insulated pliers) hold the lead about a half inch from the block (or head)..... should see a nice blue spark jump across......
I'd hesitate to move ignition timing until making a few quick checks - timing will require a bit of work.......
3/-
Mechanical.....
To check the timing gear - you will find that your oil light will normally go out when cranking for a short period of time.
In the case of a "spent" timing gear - the first thing you will notice is that the engine almost races as you crank it over.
If this is the case - take off the rocker cover breather and spin it over - you should see the valves move - if your on your own - put it in neutral (or park) and make sure the vehicle is not going to move - turn the engine over by hand - with a grey, you should be able to do this gently by pulling a fan blade whilst holding slight pressure on the fan belt....
If your valves are moving, I'd go back to ignition or fuel.
4/-
If all seems OK so far - then it will most likely be either ignition timing is out (for some strange reason) or the fuel is "sour" or plugs are wet........
If it is "wet" - it may be that the engine is flooded but you should have heard it getting pretty rough before it died...... sort of "spluttering to death" and a lot of black smoke out the back........ (I note that you stated this was not the case.... but for my procedure).
Pull a plug and see if it is saturated.....
If it is - remove them all and dry them - don't put them straight back in - but spin the engine over for thirty seconds or so - and for goodness sake push that choke knob in first .... and keep your foot of the throttle.......
Put them back in - connect leads and push the throttle down about half way - only once and hold it there.........
Try and start it and as soon as it runs smoothly - let it go back to idle.
If it dies again because it is flooding - you've got a carby problem and will need to investigate.......
If your plugs are all wet and you know the fuel to be fresh - there may be a chance that the carb float needle and seat is either stuck open, has rubbish holding it open or the float is stuck down.......
5/-
Back to ignition....... and for the cost of one of these nowadays..... I believe anyone with points in a car should carry one in the boot........
- a TIMING LIGHT ......
Simply put - it tells you when the spark from the distributor "fires" off when pointed at a mark on the flywheel.......
It is also a very good way of quickly finding out if your ignition system is at least putting out a spark......
If the connections to the coil and distributor are intact but still no spark - I'd pull off the distributor cover and have a good look inside.....
There is a "button" in the distributor cover which is spring loaded - it can happen that this fails - just give it a wipe and check that it springs back out if pushed in.
Check the rotor button is "engaged" - they can break and spin around on the shaft - this is extremely rare.
Check the end of the rotor button - for heavy oxidisation or broken/worn end..... not likely, but check it anyway.
Check the inside of the distributor cap - for badly worn terminals - this is highly unlikely as they would not all fail at once..... unless the rotor actually came into contact with them......
Now we get to the tricky bit..... the points .... yes, those things that people shudder when you first mention them....... relax - they've been around for years and with our old jalopies will be for years to come.....
What we want to do is take a good look at the opening gap between the set..... a few things will make them fail....
1 - wet
2 - dirty/oily
3 - burned
4 - out of adjustment
5 - and this one is extremely rare - but I did suffer it - the braided wire from the base of the point plate to the body of the distributor broken.
1 - wet - dry them out with your CLEAN RAG especially between the faces.
2 - dirty/oily - again - clean rag - the faces and surrounding area has to be clean or the small "spark" wont jump across where it is needed.
3 - burned - you will see both faces badly oxidised and either a "build up" or burned away look on them...... in this case, the car's performance would probably have started to show signs of something amiss...... not starting as readily as it should, back-firing when over-running the engine down hill or "knocking" when putting the engine under full load at low speed (not that this should ever be done)
In the following - if on the road - do NOT loosen the screw holding the points in position - if you do not have a set of "feeler gauges" or timing light - you will have the devil's own time of trying to get this gap set again...... you can "clean" them up simply by rotating the engine so that the points are "closed" and gently prise them apart with your finger nail or screwdriver......
You will need to "clean up" the faces to get it going - a "points file" or an icy pole stick wrapped with some fine emery or wet and dry should at least get it going....... remember here my suggestion - TIMING LIGHT.
Whenever you alter this gap between the faces of those points - you ARE going to change the timing of the engine....... bigger gap - timing "retarded" - smaller gap - engine "advanced"
A TIMING LIGHT will permit you to adjust the distributor so that it "fires" when the light flashes on the ball on the flywheel........
When you clean the points - don't go overboard - you just need to get a flush/parallel pair of faces which open cleanly for the coil to get its signal to "fire".....
4/- out of adjustment - it would be unlikely for and engine to "suddenly" fail because of this - unless something came "loose"......
I suppose, they could be running on the very "limit" of adjustment then fail..... but you would notice the vehicle being "off song" well before it failed......
If you have just "cleaned" up your points and you don't have a timing light...... providing you haven't taken off a huge amount of the point contacts - the engine should start if this was the falult....... or show signs that it wants to.......
If you consider that "removing" the surface of the points will result in making them open later...... you would need to "advance" the distributor slightly more to correct this...... but, and I cannot stress this enough..... it would be very minimal - and should not really make a great difference as to whether the engine starts or not.....
If you loosen anything off and start to play with it.... you could very well end up "timing" it well out of range.......
This procedure is best done in your garage with feeler gauges and a timing light...... a "dwell" meter is also a good investment - but I'm not going into this here.........
5/- broken earth wire ... when you take off the distributor cap - just take a peek down at the base plate where the points are - you will see a bare braided copper wire which connects the base plate to the inside of the distributor body - check that it hasn't broken - this will definitely "fail" the ignition system..... you rarely hear of it happening but I have suffered this (and the RACV man who came to my rescue did not find it........and could only offer for me to be towed to a garage..... many, many years ago......) - I did find it - but purely by accident..... and right in front of his eyes........ to his shock, horror, disbelief and embarassment......
enough - you've lost interest by now... surely...?
Let me know if you need more..... I'd be disappointed if you don't either get satisfaction from one of the above..... or at least find that one of the tests reveals a fault......
frats,
Rosco
First off, Rosco, you're a damn legend! If everyone in life answered questions as thoroughly and as well as you, I'd be a happy man...
Anyone who could fault you for providing too much info is nuts. Personally I appreciate the method you use...explaining things from start to finish without assuming prior knowledge on the part of the 'apprentice'. Couldn't ask for better, as even if there is info in there that I may already know, someone else might not and valuable knowledge and experience is shared.
At the end of the day what we have is a broad base of collective genius that just can't be bettered. Without guys like you it wouldn't be possible.
I happen to be pretty much the only one of my friends that digs old cars and their 'personalities', so everything I'm picking up, I'm doing by myself, and sometimes the learning curve can be a steep one...lol.
ps: hope that didn't sound like I was minimising the advice of the other forum members
As always, the assistance offered on this site is second to none. Just wanted to give props to Rosco, as he doesn't always sound convinced of how valuable his posts are.
Anyone who could fault you for providing too much info is nuts. Personally I appreciate the method you use...explaining things from start to finish without assuming prior knowledge on the part of the 'apprentice'. Couldn't ask for better, as even if there is info in there that I may already know, someone else might not and valuable knowledge and experience is shared.
At the end of the day what we have is a broad base of collective genius that just can't be bettered. Without guys like you it wouldn't be possible.
I happen to be pretty much the only one of my friends that digs old cars and their 'personalities', so everything I'm picking up, I'm doing by myself, and sometimes the learning curve can be a steep one...lol.
ps: hope that didn't sound like I was minimising the advice of the other forum members
As always, the assistance offered on this site is second to none. Just wanted to give props to Rosco, as he doesn't always sound convinced of how valuable his posts are.
Last edited by Oldnblue on Sun Aug 23, 2009 4:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
So, as for the car, I've narrowed things down but still haven't had a great deal of luck.
I removed timing gear from the equation (and like you pointed out Rosco, would have been surprised if they'd gone when the car was only idling and without any warning).
My next stop was to see if there was fuel in the carb. Mmmmm...close to dry - tried pumping carb a couple of times and no fuel squirts from nozzle. So pretty sure now that it's a fuel issue, but decided to start with your basics anyway for the purpose of thorough maintenance.
Started working through your points:
1. Checked all leads to coil and all were good clean connections, nothing loose. Coil to Distributor also good. Swapped to a spare coil just to be sure but still no start.
2. Battery connections checked and all secure and clean. No start
3. Double checked fuel path between tank and carb...filter and pump bowl both contain fuel, but looking dirty. Swapped fuel lines from lower engine bay through to pump with new flexible hoses, connectors and filter. Pulled fuel pump apart and thoroughly cleaned before reassembling and installing. Still no start.
4. Removed steel fuel lines from pump exit through to carb. No obstructions and totally clean. No start.
5. Pulled top assembly of carb off and cleaned. No visible signs of blockage yet. Put top assembly back on and pumped carb again. This time we have fuel squirting into carb!!
Tried to start car, and after a period of cranking which brought fuel up into new lines/bowl, the car started. Woo hoo!!
But...short lived. She idled cleanly for about 60 seconds and then started to miss intermittently. 20 or 30 seconds later she was struggling more and then died on me. Pumped fuel a couple times and tried to re-start but this time she coughed and spluttered right from the get go and gave up after 20 seconds or so.
At this point I ran out of time as I needed to head out with the family, so the old girl was pushed back into the garage (having guests over tonight so there'll be no more work on the car until tomorrow after work).
Now...before I work my way through your other steps (ignition etc), would you agree that this now seems very much fuel related, and if so, is my best step to completely disassemble the carb to clear any potential blockage, and then re-check or is there a more step-by-step way to establish where the issue originates?
I had something vaguely similar happen about 2 years ago where I got a batch of fuel containing water and she just wouldn't accelerate. Idling was fine but the second any load was put on, she died. Had to have the carb completely pulled down before it was ok. Drained the full tank as well and only then would the car drive. From that point on haven't had a whisper of a problem until now, so am wondering if it's the same type of issue...blockage in the carb, somewhere this time that is stopping fuel from getting through completely, not just under acceleration??
This time, seeing as I have another car to drive, If it's carb related, I'll try fixing it myself rather than sending out.
Phew...so, unless I hear otherwise, I'll continue working through your other steps after work tomorrow just to check all other avenues and see if anything else presents itself.
Again, many thanks for your extremely helpful post Rosco.
Cheers, Scott
I removed timing gear from the equation (and like you pointed out Rosco, would have been surprised if they'd gone when the car was only idling and without any warning).
My next stop was to see if there was fuel in the carb. Mmmmm...close to dry - tried pumping carb a couple of times and no fuel squirts from nozzle. So pretty sure now that it's a fuel issue, but decided to start with your basics anyway for the purpose of thorough maintenance.
Started working through your points:
1. Checked all leads to coil and all were good clean connections, nothing loose. Coil to Distributor also good. Swapped to a spare coil just to be sure but still no start.
2. Battery connections checked and all secure and clean. No start
3. Double checked fuel path between tank and carb...filter and pump bowl both contain fuel, but looking dirty. Swapped fuel lines from lower engine bay through to pump with new flexible hoses, connectors and filter. Pulled fuel pump apart and thoroughly cleaned before reassembling and installing. Still no start.
4. Removed steel fuel lines from pump exit through to carb. No obstructions and totally clean. No start.
5. Pulled top assembly of carb off and cleaned. No visible signs of blockage yet. Put top assembly back on and pumped carb again. This time we have fuel squirting into carb!!
Tried to start car, and after a period of cranking which brought fuel up into new lines/bowl, the car started. Woo hoo!!
But...short lived. She idled cleanly for about 60 seconds and then started to miss intermittently. 20 or 30 seconds later she was struggling more and then died on me. Pumped fuel a couple times and tried to re-start but this time she coughed and spluttered right from the get go and gave up after 20 seconds or so.
At this point I ran out of time as I needed to head out with the family, so the old girl was pushed back into the garage (having guests over tonight so there'll be no more work on the car until tomorrow after work).
Now...before I work my way through your other steps (ignition etc), would you agree that this now seems very much fuel related, and if so, is my best step to completely disassemble the carb to clear any potential blockage, and then re-check or is there a more step-by-step way to establish where the issue originates?
I had something vaguely similar happen about 2 years ago where I got a batch of fuel containing water and she just wouldn't accelerate. Idling was fine but the second any load was put on, she died. Had to have the carb completely pulled down before it was ok. Drained the full tank as well and only then would the car drive. From that point on haven't had a whisper of a problem until now, so am wondering if it's the same type of issue...blockage in the carb, somewhere this time that is stopping fuel from getting through completely, not just under acceleration??
This time, seeing as I have another car to drive, If it's carb related, I'll try fixing it myself rather than sending out.
Phew...so, unless I hear otherwise, I'll continue working through your other steps after work tomorrow just to check all other avenues and see if anything else presents itself.
Again, many thanks for your extremely helpful post Rosco.
Cheers, Scott
Scott - I might run out of time in this post - but don't touch your electrics......
from your information, we need to find what is causing your fuel issue.
You didn't touch the ignition - and managed to get it running by investigating the fuel...... that ordinarily, should be enough to make a good start..... yes, I have had occasion where two faults occurred simultaneously - but one was a result of tinkering without investigating...... and I managed to "put a fault" on myself........
I am (at this stage) leaning towards a fuel pump/filter/line/needle and seat issue......
You mentioned that there wasn't any fuel squirting into the carby - this is usually a direct indication that it isn't in the carby.
You probably know what I am about to type - but for the benefit of others who are following this......
Fuel in the tank is drawn through a riser pipe which has a coarse gauze mesh in it.
From there it passes out through the front of the fuel tank and along the fuel line to the fuel pump.
(the following is irrelevant to your problem, but whilst we're in the shop........the flexible hose from the pipe to the fuel pump is surrounded by copper braid - this is done to "earth" the body to the engine - yes, I know - it doesn't sound good - but it's true........
On later models, an earth lead ran from the negative post of the battery to the body - but on ours - there wasn't any fitted)....... back to the system....
The General did not fit a fuel filter in the line anywhere in the system - if you find one (and I would suggest fitting one) then it has been "added" later........
The fuel pump has a spring loaded diagphragm held in place and sealed between the two halves of the fuel pump.
It is operated by a lever which gets its "push" by a lobe on the camshaft - yes, another thing which not work if the timing gear teeth are sheared....
This lever pull down the diaphragm against its spring and as it does, it draws fuel through a check valve. As it does this, the fuel can be seen entering the fuel bowl..... if it is getting pumped into the bowl and you can see it - it means that check valve is doing its job.......
When the camshaft releases the fuel pump lever, the diaphragm spring forces the diaphragm up. When this happens, the inlet check valve closes and the diaphragm forces the outlet one to open - forcing fuel into the pipe to the carby...... it is the diaphragm spring tension which detemines fuel pump pressure......
Basically what happens is that the fuel pump has two check valves - one to allow fuel into the pump bowl and the other to allow fuel from the bowl into the pipe up to the carby........ they are never both open at the same time but work in conjunction with each other to suck from the tank and pump fuel to the carby.
At the carby, we have a "float" needle and seat.
It's purpose is to regulate the level of fuel in the carby.
It does this by the float rising and closing off the valve. This valve has enough resistance to stop the fuel pump continuing to force fuel up the pipe and flooding the carby.......
When the float is lowered, the needle and seat are fully open - fuel will quickly and easily pump into the carby bowl until the float rises to its setting (we'll talk about this later) and shuts off the supply of fuel.
In the carby there is an "accelerating pump" - what it does is "pump" a supply of fuel directly through a hole inside the carby - it does this so that the engine gets a "charge" of raw fuel to assist with it increasing speed - if this system is not working correctly - the engine will "miss" on accelerating....... don't be fooled, Scott - this is only one reason the engine will do this..... many people "fall" for it and replace the pump, check valve only to find it still "misses"........
This "pump" is a good tool for checking if there is fuel in the carby - as it can be seen "squirting" through the throat......
If this accelerating pump is not working - it won't "fail" the engine at idle - by your symptoms..... I would suggest that you do not have a fault here..... or at least not one which will stop the engine.....
Now for the stuff you really want.......
There are a number of possibilities I can draw on readily......
You mention you had water in your fuel two years ago..... it has been my experience that water in fuel takes a very determined effort to finally get rid of.... and can take some time......
I had reached the conclusion many years ago - that rather than persevere with chasing water - to completely drain the tank - bone dry... disconnect the lines and blow them all through. Remove the (added) fule filter and replace it. Remove the fuel pump bowl and completely drain and dry it. Remove the carby and give it an overhaul..... bone dry......
Then - by filling the tank again with fresh fuel....... without any water.... only then I had confidence that at some time down the track.... that pesky and annoying go/stop/go/shudder/go/hesitate indication that there was water in the system wouldn't again present itself.
Next..... it would probably be easier to check the carby float level next - but I am hesitant to believe this to be the fault.....
If you haven't done this for some time, it's probably one job you can do and can cross off your maintenance list for some time.....
Float chamber needles and seats generally fail by allowing too much fuel to get into the carby - not by stopping it.... but - yes, stranger things can happen.....
You mention that you have had the carby services or overhauled recently (in terms of how long the engine has been running - not in calendar time)... I am of the opinion that it should still be fine - however, if you do not have an auxiliary fuel filter in the line - all sorts of muck and fine grit could have been pumped up the the fuel pump.....yes, that fuel pump guaze won't stop everything..... a fuel filter will (Ryco Z14 A - is the one I fitted... you may have one?).
You mention that you have checked the metal pipe to the carby - and it is clear.... have you ever used silicone sealant on anything in your fuel system..... that blasted stuff should be banned from motor vehicles.... I detest it. It has a bad habit of curing and coming loose...... it will then "find" the most inconspicuous place to hide itself.... and usually the most critical......
If you have checked your fuel line from the tank, checked the hoses and pipes to the fuel pump and carby and they are all clear.....
The next step I would suggest is to check the fuel delivery - you will need to be very careful with this Scott - as you can set fire to yourself, your car and may even end up with an explosion.
What I would suggest is to undo the pipe at the carby - and place a length of tubing over it. Long enough so that it can be placed into a container for you to see fuel being pumped up - from what you say, I would suspect that either this will be very erratic or you will see a lot of rubbish go into the container with the fuel - I am hoping that this is the case - it will most likely mean that you are pumping rubbish through the system and this is causing your issues.....
What I hope is not happening is that the fuel pumps for a while then stops and starts again for no apparent reason.......
If this is the case it can probably be narrowed down to two things... either the fuel pump is "sucking air" from a pipe somewhere or more seriously - one of those check valves are not seating under their little springs......
It will only take one of them to fail and the pump will start to behave erratically....... I note you have an EK - phew! - the FB fuel pump also has a vacuum pump under it for supplying vacuum to the windscreen wipers when the throttle is opened....... otherwise the wipers would stop in this case......... ( you may have seen this "shuddering" of the wipers in an FB under heavy load..... this is the vacuum pump of the fuel pump working them........).....
If the check valves are suspect - you will need to remove the fuel pump and check it ..... by pressing in the lever from the camshaft, you should hear the pump suck through the inlet check valve.... is sort of sounds like it's being strangled....... if that is ok - pump the lever a few times again with your finger blocking the outlet to the carby - you should feel slight pressure under your finger and hear it escape when you let your finger go..... of course, connecting it to some fuel would also indicate if it was working.....but step carefully - these pumps have to pump "up" to the carby...... you will need to have something connected to make it rise up into a container.......if you were just to see it pump fuel through... it could be that it is almost running through by gravity... the squirting indication merely being co-incidental.....
If the valves appear ok - the other issue is possibly a broken spring (you would feel this by pushing in and out the lever) or a torn diaphragm..... fuel would then be passing into your sump....... not good, olly......
I have to go for now.....
If you were to ask me for a quick answer (without jumping to conclusions, Scott) from what you have stated, I'd be checking the fuel for crap, checking the pump is pumping fuel freely and consistently up to the carby and check the float needle and seat are open and will allow fuel to flow through......
got to go....
frats,
Rosco
from your information, we need to find what is causing your fuel issue.
You didn't touch the ignition - and managed to get it running by investigating the fuel...... that ordinarily, should be enough to make a good start..... yes, I have had occasion where two faults occurred simultaneously - but one was a result of tinkering without investigating...... and I managed to "put a fault" on myself........
I am (at this stage) leaning towards a fuel pump/filter/line/needle and seat issue......
You mentioned that there wasn't any fuel squirting into the carby - this is usually a direct indication that it isn't in the carby.
You probably know what I am about to type - but for the benefit of others who are following this......
Fuel in the tank is drawn through a riser pipe which has a coarse gauze mesh in it.
From there it passes out through the front of the fuel tank and along the fuel line to the fuel pump.
(the following is irrelevant to your problem, but whilst we're in the shop........the flexible hose from the pipe to the fuel pump is surrounded by copper braid - this is done to "earth" the body to the engine - yes, I know - it doesn't sound good - but it's true........
On later models, an earth lead ran from the negative post of the battery to the body - but on ours - there wasn't any fitted)....... back to the system....
The General did not fit a fuel filter in the line anywhere in the system - if you find one (and I would suggest fitting one) then it has been "added" later........
The fuel pump has a spring loaded diagphragm held in place and sealed between the two halves of the fuel pump.
It is operated by a lever which gets its "push" by a lobe on the camshaft - yes, another thing which not work if the timing gear teeth are sheared....
This lever pull down the diaphragm against its spring and as it does, it draws fuel through a check valve. As it does this, the fuel can be seen entering the fuel bowl..... if it is getting pumped into the bowl and you can see it - it means that check valve is doing its job.......
When the camshaft releases the fuel pump lever, the diaphragm spring forces the diaphragm up. When this happens, the inlet check valve closes and the diaphragm forces the outlet one to open - forcing fuel into the pipe to the carby...... it is the diaphragm spring tension which detemines fuel pump pressure......
Basically what happens is that the fuel pump has two check valves - one to allow fuel into the pump bowl and the other to allow fuel from the bowl into the pipe up to the carby........ they are never both open at the same time but work in conjunction with each other to suck from the tank and pump fuel to the carby.
At the carby, we have a "float" needle and seat.
It's purpose is to regulate the level of fuel in the carby.
It does this by the float rising and closing off the valve. This valve has enough resistance to stop the fuel pump continuing to force fuel up the pipe and flooding the carby.......
When the float is lowered, the needle and seat are fully open - fuel will quickly and easily pump into the carby bowl until the float rises to its setting (we'll talk about this later) and shuts off the supply of fuel.
In the carby there is an "accelerating pump" - what it does is "pump" a supply of fuel directly through a hole inside the carby - it does this so that the engine gets a "charge" of raw fuel to assist with it increasing speed - if this system is not working correctly - the engine will "miss" on accelerating....... don't be fooled, Scott - this is only one reason the engine will do this..... many people "fall" for it and replace the pump, check valve only to find it still "misses"........
This "pump" is a good tool for checking if there is fuel in the carby - as it can be seen "squirting" through the throat......
If this accelerating pump is not working - it won't "fail" the engine at idle - by your symptoms..... I would suggest that you do not have a fault here..... or at least not one which will stop the engine.....
Now for the stuff you really want.......
There are a number of possibilities I can draw on readily......
You mention you had water in your fuel two years ago..... it has been my experience that water in fuel takes a very determined effort to finally get rid of.... and can take some time......
I had reached the conclusion many years ago - that rather than persevere with chasing water - to completely drain the tank - bone dry... disconnect the lines and blow them all through. Remove the (added) fule filter and replace it. Remove the fuel pump bowl and completely drain and dry it. Remove the carby and give it an overhaul..... bone dry......
Then - by filling the tank again with fresh fuel....... without any water.... only then I had confidence that at some time down the track.... that pesky and annoying go/stop/go/shudder/go/hesitate indication that there was water in the system wouldn't again present itself.
Next..... it would probably be easier to check the carby float level next - but I am hesitant to believe this to be the fault.....
If you haven't done this for some time, it's probably one job you can do and can cross off your maintenance list for some time.....
Float chamber needles and seats generally fail by allowing too much fuel to get into the carby - not by stopping it.... but - yes, stranger things can happen.....
You mention that you have had the carby services or overhauled recently (in terms of how long the engine has been running - not in calendar time)... I am of the opinion that it should still be fine - however, if you do not have an auxiliary fuel filter in the line - all sorts of muck and fine grit could have been pumped up the the fuel pump.....yes, that fuel pump guaze won't stop everything..... a fuel filter will (Ryco Z14 A - is the one I fitted... you may have one?).
You mention that you have checked the metal pipe to the carby - and it is clear.... have you ever used silicone sealant on anything in your fuel system..... that blasted stuff should be banned from motor vehicles.... I detest it. It has a bad habit of curing and coming loose...... it will then "find" the most inconspicuous place to hide itself.... and usually the most critical......
If you have checked your fuel line from the tank, checked the hoses and pipes to the fuel pump and carby and they are all clear.....
The next step I would suggest is to check the fuel delivery - you will need to be very careful with this Scott - as you can set fire to yourself, your car and may even end up with an explosion.
What I would suggest is to undo the pipe at the carby - and place a length of tubing over it. Long enough so that it can be placed into a container for you to see fuel being pumped up - from what you say, I would suspect that either this will be very erratic or you will see a lot of rubbish go into the container with the fuel - I am hoping that this is the case - it will most likely mean that you are pumping rubbish through the system and this is causing your issues.....
What I hope is not happening is that the fuel pumps for a while then stops and starts again for no apparent reason.......
If this is the case it can probably be narrowed down to two things... either the fuel pump is "sucking air" from a pipe somewhere or more seriously - one of those check valves are not seating under their little springs......
It will only take one of them to fail and the pump will start to behave erratically....... I note you have an EK - phew! - the FB fuel pump also has a vacuum pump under it for supplying vacuum to the windscreen wipers when the throttle is opened....... otherwise the wipers would stop in this case......... ( you may have seen this "shuddering" of the wipers in an FB under heavy load..... this is the vacuum pump of the fuel pump working them........).....
If the check valves are suspect - you will need to remove the fuel pump and check it ..... by pressing in the lever from the camshaft, you should hear the pump suck through the inlet check valve.... is sort of sounds like it's being strangled....... if that is ok - pump the lever a few times again with your finger blocking the outlet to the carby - you should feel slight pressure under your finger and hear it escape when you let your finger go..... of course, connecting it to some fuel would also indicate if it was working.....but step carefully - these pumps have to pump "up" to the carby...... you will need to have something connected to make it rise up into a container.......if you were just to see it pump fuel through... it could be that it is almost running through by gravity... the squirting indication merely being co-incidental.....
If the valves appear ok - the other issue is possibly a broken spring (you would feel this by pushing in and out the lever) or a torn diaphragm..... fuel would then be passing into your sump....... not good, olly......
I have to go for now.....
If you were to ask me for a quick answer (without jumping to conclusions, Scott) from what you have stated, I'd be checking the fuel for crap, checking the pump is pumping fuel freely and consistently up to the carby and check the float needle and seat are open and will allow fuel to flow through......
got to go....
frats,
Rosco
Rosco
As you suggest, I'll step carefully through the fuel issues and leave the ignition alone until I've exhausted all appropriate fuel delivery avenues.
After reading your post, I wonder if my replacement of the flexible hoses, installation of a fresh filter and cleaning of pump that I did today may have flushed them enough to allow enough fuel through to the carb which resulted in my short-lived start. Maybe after pumping for the minute or so that the engine ran, water again worked it's way through and hey presto, blocked the system and stalled the engine, leaving me once more with an engine that won't even start??
I'll go back through the fuel pump tomorrow night and check further into the areas you described to ensure it's doing what it should (when I cleaned it out this arvo it seemed to be in perfect working order, but your post has given me a few extra things to check over there).
It sounds like I'm going to have to drain and dry out the tank like last time, pull down the carb, clean/dry it (and maybe run a kit through it at the same time), blow out the lines again, and see if that resolves anything. I'll be spending a few nights this week in the garage I reckon.
Thanks Rosco
Scott
As you suggest, I'll step carefully through the fuel issues and leave the ignition alone until I've exhausted all appropriate fuel delivery avenues.
After reading your post, I wonder if my replacement of the flexible hoses, installation of a fresh filter and cleaning of pump that I did today may have flushed them enough to allow enough fuel through to the carb which resulted in my short-lived start. Maybe after pumping for the minute or so that the engine ran, water again worked it's way through and hey presto, blocked the system and stalled the engine, leaving me once more with an engine that won't even start??
I'll go back through the fuel pump tomorrow night and check further into the areas you described to ensure it's doing what it should (when I cleaned it out this arvo it seemed to be in perfect working order, but your post has given me a few extra things to check over there).
It sounds like I'm going to have to drain and dry out the tank like last time, pull down the carb, clean/dry it (and maybe run a kit through it at the same time), blow out the lines again, and see if that resolves anything. I'll be spending a few nights this week in the garage I reckon.
Thanks Rosco
Scott
Hi again Scott...... just a "short" note.... you don't believe this, do you?
If you have water in your fuel - usually the first thing to look for is droplets around the inside of your carby - sometimes this can be a waxy looking film.
I note that there can be many advantages in purchasing "cheap" fuels...not that I am suggesting you have .......
For the seldom use of our old jalopies - less with some than others..... and I'm definitely in the former group...... the few cents saved by purchasing cheap fuel cannot justify having to effect repairs or maintenance when we take a "joy" ride..........
I was sold three quarters of a tank of water in 1977 at Charlestown, NSW (near Newcastle) and have never forgotten the experience - with heavy caravan in tow........ had just overtaken a truck on a narrow section of road and the dreaded "brmmmm. splutter, splutter, gaaarrgghh, splutter, brrrrrrrrmm, splutter - stop happened - please don't ask me to repeat this.... it's the best I can do to say it once......... as in "listen very carefully" speak.......)
What I was told to do - about five miles from where I had filled the tank - was to let the car settle (not that I could blasted well do anything else!) but get all people out of it and let it settle....... after 30 minutes the water in the fuel should have settled in the bottom of the tank (petrol is lighter than water - or more to the point..... oil floats on top of water)......
With our cars - there is a fuel tank drain underneath... I was told to open the drain and let it run out until it changed colour...... and I was sure only petrol was running out onto the ground.......(EPA sympathisers.... this was back in 1977....... I cannot condone doing this in these times).....
I was then told to re-fit the drain bolt, undo the lines at the fuel pump and let it run out.
Then undo the cover plug under the carby and let it drain (probably considering the engine had not run for some time...... correct, Sir...)
Re-fit the plug and crank the engine until it started..... with the choke pulled out to ensure sufficient "petrol" was in the mixture.......
It worked.....!..... and we drove back sort of using the choke when things got a bit jerky....... they then went through the procedure I gave you above for fuel...... and I have never forgotten it.......
Life is an experience - every event should be shared.... this is one of our "humanistic" qualities.........
Now back tot he short reply...... I lied - sorry!.......
I am probably being convicted of my own prophecy here, Scott..... don't jump to conclusions..... but from the indications you have stated - I'd be starting with fresh clean fuel system and fresh fuel......
There are members in the Victorian club who practice nearly emptying their tanks prior to the vehicle going into storage........ there are pro's and con's for either doing this or not..... and I am undecided which way I fall on it....... I don't like the idea of the tank sitting almost empty for fear of corrosion..... but I have concerns with fuel going "off" if left for long, long periods..... not that this has happened to me.........
I prefer to use the most expensive fuel - and have to proprietors I try to stick to...... their reputation is on the line, and I have found my old bus more reliable by adopting this discipline.......
You must also realise that I have a red (although it is not coloured "Red") motor in my vehicle and it demands a higher octane rating than a standard "grey"........
We are only assuming that your fuel is the issue.... and this is very wrong.... but it is a learned assumption.... and I would be very disappointed if I were pointing you in the wrong direction........
I have re-read your last two posts on this and understand that you do have a filter..... it MUST be replaced - I do not know that water can be drained or removed from these - for the small cost in replacing .... consider it to be "early servicing"........
I would like to believe that you have this filter positioned in the fuel line BEFORE it gets to the fuel pump..... many people put them between the pump and the carby - but this invites rubbish passing almost unfiltered (gauze in fuel riser pipe being the only filtration.... if it is intact...).
I have also seen filters fitted on the straight section of pipe between the carburettor and thermostat..... I shudder with that one....... IF it leaks/splits/comes apart/hoses come off...... it's directly over the hot exhaust manifold........... aaaarrrgggghhhhhhh - I shudder when I see it.....
I am fairly confident that you will correct your issue after cleaning all your system and renewing the filter. But you must get it ALL out and probably discipline yourself to adopting some "procedure" when it comes to fuel requirements......
I would like to post up a section on the caburettor and how the various systems work within..... it gets a little complex..... but these are "simple" carburettors and they function very, very efficiently and seldom need any servicing.......... they have served our old buses very, very well and efficiently........
If all else - electrical & mechanical are set and operating correctly - I may be wrong - but can think of only separate fuel system functions which will stop your engine starting - the fuel itself, the fuel pump, the float/needle/seat, air leaks in the carburettor or blocked jets or passages........
If you are ever out on the road and you suspect your passages to have small amounts of crap in them....... and be very, very careful here - Scott...... there is a way of trying to clear them......
You need your engine to be running - and have to have the air cleaner removed.........
Your large clean rag from the boot plays a significant role here - but wrap it around your wrist so it cannot be ingested.......
Open up your throttle so that the engine is running very fast - not "valve bouncing" but fast ..... then completely cover the carby with the rag - don't let it get drawn in - just cover the carby opening and at the same time open up and close the throttle repeatedly until it almost chokes the engine... do this a number of times to "clear" the blockages......
You must be very, very careful doing this - there is a fan, fan belt and a whole heap of "dangers" just waiting to grap/burn/ignite/mangle/cut/explode/backfire....... you probably need someone to show you the procedure before I would set anyone off into the "wilds" to have a "play"............ I am almost about to delete this entire paragraph... that's how strongly I feel it can get a person into danger..... but ........ I believe you understand the implications.... and - for legality.... I am not instructing you to attempt this..... it is information only and anyone who accepts the risks - does so at their own peril........
that's the end of this lesson, Scott - I hope you have "gleaned" something of it........
I have to go to bed........
frats,
Rosco
If you have water in your fuel - usually the first thing to look for is droplets around the inside of your carby - sometimes this can be a waxy looking film.
I note that there can be many advantages in purchasing "cheap" fuels...not that I am suggesting you have .......
For the seldom use of our old jalopies - less with some than others..... and I'm definitely in the former group...... the few cents saved by purchasing cheap fuel cannot justify having to effect repairs or maintenance when we take a "joy" ride..........
I was sold three quarters of a tank of water in 1977 at Charlestown, NSW (near Newcastle) and have never forgotten the experience - with heavy caravan in tow........ had just overtaken a truck on a narrow section of road and the dreaded "brmmmm. splutter, splutter, gaaarrgghh, splutter, brrrrrrrrmm, splutter - stop happened - please don't ask me to repeat this.... it's the best I can do to say it once......... as in "listen very carefully" speak.......)
What I was told to do - about five miles from where I had filled the tank - was to let the car settle (not that I could blasted well do anything else!) but get all people out of it and let it settle....... after 30 minutes the water in the fuel should have settled in the bottom of the tank (petrol is lighter than water - or more to the point..... oil floats on top of water)......
With our cars - there is a fuel tank drain underneath... I was told to open the drain and let it run out until it changed colour...... and I was sure only petrol was running out onto the ground.......(EPA sympathisers.... this was back in 1977....... I cannot condone doing this in these times).....
I was then told to re-fit the drain bolt, undo the lines at the fuel pump and let it run out.
Then undo the cover plug under the carby and let it drain (probably considering the engine had not run for some time...... correct, Sir...)
Re-fit the plug and crank the engine until it started..... with the choke pulled out to ensure sufficient "petrol" was in the mixture.......
It worked.....!..... and we drove back sort of using the choke when things got a bit jerky....... they then went through the procedure I gave you above for fuel...... and I have never forgotten it.......
Life is an experience - every event should be shared.... this is one of our "humanistic" qualities.........
Now back tot he short reply...... I lied - sorry!.......
I am probably being convicted of my own prophecy here, Scott..... don't jump to conclusions..... but from the indications you have stated - I'd be starting with fresh clean fuel system and fresh fuel......
There are members in the Victorian club who practice nearly emptying their tanks prior to the vehicle going into storage........ there are pro's and con's for either doing this or not..... and I am undecided which way I fall on it....... I don't like the idea of the tank sitting almost empty for fear of corrosion..... but I have concerns with fuel going "off" if left for long, long periods..... not that this has happened to me.........
I prefer to use the most expensive fuel - and have to proprietors I try to stick to...... their reputation is on the line, and I have found my old bus more reliable by adopting this discipline.......
You must also realise that I have a red (although it is not coloured "Red") motor in my vehicle and it demands a higher octane rating than a standard "grey"........
We are only assuming that your fuel is the issue.... and this is very wrong.... but it is a learned assumption.... and I would be very disappointed if I were pointing you in the wrong direction........
I have re-read your last two posts on this and understand that you do have a filter..... it MUST be replaced - I do not know that water can be drained or removed from these - for the small cost in replacing .... consider it to be "early servicing"........
I would like to believe that you have this filter positioned in the fuel line BEFORE it gets to the fuel pump..... many people put them between the pump and the carby - but this invites rubbish passing almost unfiltered (gauze in fuel riser pipe being the only filtration.... if it is intact...).
I have also seen filters fitted on the straight section of pipe between the carburettor and thermostat..... I shudder with that one....... IF it leaks/splits/comes apart/hoses come off...... it's directly over the hot exhaust manifold........... aaaarrrgggghhhhhhh - I shudder when I see it.....
I am fairly confident that you will correct your issue after cleaning all your system and renewing the filter. But you must get it ALL out and probably discipline yourself to adopting some "procedure" when it comes to fuel requirements......
I would like to post up a section on the caburettor and how the various systems work within..... it gets a little complex..... but these are "simple" carburettors and they function very, very efficiently and seldom need any servicing.......... they have served our old buses very, very well and efficiently........
If all else - electrical & mechanical are set and operating correctly - I may be wrong - but can think of only separate fuel system functions which will stop your engine starting - the fuel itself, the fuel pump, the float/needle/seat, air leaks in the carburettor or blocked jets or passages........
If you are ever out on the road and you suspect your passages to have small amounts of crap in them....... and be very, very careful here - Scott...... there is a way of trying to clear them......
You need your engine to be running - and have to have the air cleaner removed.........
Your large clean rag from the boot plays a significant role here - but wrap it around your wrist so it cannot be ingested.......
Open up your throttle so that the engine is running very fast - not "valve bouncing" but fast ..... then completely cover the carby with the rag - don't let it get drawn in - just cover the carby opening and at the same time open up and close the throttle repeatedly until it almost chokes the engine... do this a number of times to "clear" the blockages......
You must be very, very careful doing this - there is a fan, fan belt and a whole heap of "dangers" just waiting to grap/burn/ignite/mangle/cut/explode/backfire....... you probably need someone to show you the procedure before I would set anyone off into the "wilds" to have a "play"............ I am almost about to delete this entire paragraph... that's how strongly I feel it can get a person into danger..... but ........ I believe you understand the implications.... and - for legality.... I am not instructing you to attempt this..... it is information only and anyone who accepts the risks - does so at their own peril........
that's the end of this lesson, Scott - I hope you have "gleaned" something of it........
I have to go to bed........
frats,
Rosco
Just read your last one again - at the end of the day, Scott.... if this doesn't resolve the issue - it is certainly going to do two things.......
Eradicate the most likely fuel faults......
and... wait for it....
teach you and others a little more on how our old jalopies function.......
frats,
Rosco
ps - your fuel filter - if it's crap in the fuel that's causing the problems - I would very much doubt that it will have blocked up so quickly..... they really do stop a lot before they get clogged up completely......
water, however is another issue - I'd want to be seeing something amiss looking down the carby before I concluded that it was definitely water issues.....
If you can get some of your "fuel" out - the "old" way was to pour it into a dish and leave it evaporate....... again - petrol in the open air is dangerous....... but in a short period of time (and I know you live in sunny Qld) the petrol will evaporate and if there is water or some "mystery" fluid in your fuel...... it will remain in the dish........ do NOT try to set this alight....... it may be something else which may explode.......
frats,
Rosco
Eradicate the most likely fuel faults......
and... wait for it....
teach you and others a little more on how our old jalopies function.......
frats,
Rosco
ps - your fuel filter - if it's crap in the fuel that's causing the problems - I would very much doubt that it will have blocked up so quickly..... they really do stop a lot before they get clogged up completely......
water, however is another issue - I'd want to be seeing something amiss looking down the carby before I concluded that it was definitely water issues.....
If you can get some of your "fuel" out - the "old" way was to pour it into a dish and leave it evaporate....... again - petrol in the open air is dangerous....... but in a short period of time (and I know you live in sunny Qld) the petrol will evaporate and if there is water or some "mystery" fluid in your fuel...... it will remain in the dish........ do NOT try to set this alight....... it may be something else which may explode.......
frats,
Rosco
S'mee agin....
Just read both Sunny Tim's posts - he may be correct.... he's a lot closer to you than I - I'd take him up on his offer.......
We were only "assuming" you had spark....... the "acid" test would have been to check it again when the engine failed....... there "are" other possibilities.....
Let me know if you need any more from me....
frats,
Rosco
Just read both Sunny Tim's posts - he may be correct.... he's a lot closer to you than I - I'd take him up on his offer.......
We were only "assuming" you had spark....... the "acid" test would have been to check it again when the engine failed....... there "are" other possibilities.....
Let me know if you need any more from me....
frats,
Rosco