RED MOTOR GEARBOX TO V6

FCOV6 · Post by **FCOV6** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 10:55 am

I picked up a VN V6 for $10 and might have a go at making an adapter plate to mount the V6 to a red motor belhousing and was wondering if this was possible would anyone else be interested in this conversion ? Dellow want $425 for a bellhousing to suit a celica 5spd so i reckon its worth giving it a go. The buick V6's i have use a common buick/pontiac/oldsmobile bh but the commo V6 uses a small fwd pattern used in yank X car bodies so is a good candidate for an adapter plate to be made - these are used in the US to mount rwd V6's to fwd g/boxes.

Devilrod · Post by **Devilrod** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:48 am

Surely it'd be easier to go and pickup a cheap box from a commondore at the wreckers and have it all as per factory. Save a whole heap of time. Then you can go auto or manual....plus they will handle the power output better than a red motor box.

FCOV6 · Post by **FCOV6** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:07 pm

Devilrod wrote:Surely it'd be easier to go and pickup a cheap box from a commondore at the wreckers and have it all as per factory. Save a whole heap of time. Then you can go auto or manual....plus they will handle the power output better than a red motor box.

Maybe but then if you already have a celica 5spd or M21/M20 etc then it means you dont need to fork out on an expensive bh and more mods to t/shaft crossmember etc, it wont take much work and heaps cheaper than getting a com 5spd as they are not that common.

Sammy · Post by **Sammy** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 1:13 pm

i dunno about the strength of a celica behind it either ... i've been through 2 of them behind my 202 and its roughly got the same power as a stock v6 ... i'd suggest if you were looking for a good 5 speed for a v6 then a supra box would be the go...

as far as making an adaptor plate i guess that can be done, but i know the commodore pressure plate is bigger than a 202 one and its probably not going to fit in the bellhousing as i know theres not alot of clearance around the 202 one in a celica bellhousing etc...

i guess you could run the 202 clutch but i dunno how well it would work ...
and that is even assuming theres enough meat in the rear of it to machine it to suit a v6 crank bolt pattern.

either way i think there is far more work and mods required than a $425 conversion kit

the other thing you need to think about with a manual conversion is that you can't really just space the gearbox back like in an auto adpator plate because you need to get the input shaft into the rear of the crank and if your adaptor plate moves the gearbox back then thats just not going to happen....

then you would need to get a bush made up for the rear of the motor to suit the celica -> v6....

i'm starting to get a sore head thinking of all the stuff ... i'm just going to conclude that i'd by a supra conversion kit or run the T700 i reckon

FCOV6 · Post by **FCOV6** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 1:42 pm

Sammy wrote:i dunno about the strength of a celica behind it either ... i've been through 2 of them behind my 202 and its roughly got the same power as a stock v6 ... i'd suggest if you were looking for a good 5 speed for a v6 then a supra box would be the go...

as far as making an adaptor plate i guess that can be done, but i know the commodore pressure plate is bigger than a 202 one and its probably not going to fit in the bellhousing as i know theres not alot of clearance around the 202 one in a celica bellhousing etc...

i guess you could run the 202 clutch but i dunno how well it would work ...
and that is even assuming theres enough meat in the rear of it to machine it to suit a v6 crank bolt pattern.

either way i think there is far more work and mods required than a $425 conversion kit

the other thing you need to think about with a manual conversion is that you can't really just space the gearbox back like in an auto adpator plate because you need to get the input shaft into the rear of the crank and if your adaptor plate moves the gearbox back then thats just not going to happen....

then you would need to get a bush made up for the rear of the motor to suit the celica -> v6....

i'm starting to get a sore head thinking of all the stuff ... i'm just going to conclude that i'd by a supra conversion kit or run the T700 i reckon

Machining's not a problem , i have a mill and lathe so a crank spacer is easy to make. Once i get everything home i'll line everything up and then see what my options are. Also have a chev to 5spd bellhousing if need be - nothing is too hard if you give it a go!

Devilrod · Post by **Devilrod** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 1:59 pm

FCOV6 wrote: Maybe but then if you already have a celica 5spd or M21/M20 etc then it means you dont need to fork out on an expensive bh and more mods to t/shaft crossmember etc, it wont take much work and heaps cheaper than getting a com 5spd as they are not that common.

Didn't realise you already had a box!

FCOV6 · Post by **FCOV6** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 3:54 pm

Devilrod wrote:
FCOV6 wrote: Maybe but then if you already have a celica 5spd or M21/M20 etc then it means you dont need to fork out on an expensive bh and more mods to t/shaft crossmember etc, it wont take much work and heaps cheaper than getting a com 5spd as they are not that common.
Didn't realise you already had a box!

Yes got 2 celica boxes, 1 in the car and 1 on the ground waiting for the other bits to come together. Depending on the diameter of the V6 flywheel i will see which bellhousing will be easiest to use, might even be worthwhile making it to accept chevy pattern trans. I bought the comm v6 really just to compare parts with my buick V6's and from what i have learned i can switch parts like using the timing cover and coil pack on the buick or put the 4brl manifold on the comm V6.

Sammy · Post by **Sammy** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:23 pm

thats very interesting to know ... the buick v6's you refer to wouldn't be anything like this would they ?

FCOV6 · Post by **FCOV6** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 6:21 pm

Sammy wrote:thats very interesting to know ... the buick v6's you refer to wouldn't be anything like this would they ?

Exactly like that, i even have the same Edelbrock manifold. I tried my manifold on the Comm. V6 i bought and the distance between the heads if different- Buick is narrower. The comm V6 flexplate is tiny and is easily same size or smaller than a red motor.

Sammy · Post by **Sammy** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 1:01 pm

we compared the head gaskets off that motor to a vn s2 v6 and they look pretty close

shame about the inlet manifolds actually!

FCOV6 · Post by **FCOV6** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:59 pm

It looks like the comm V6 i got is an ecotec so it is probably different again to the VN V6, it doesnt have an inlet manifold but the cover has the throttle body out the side of the plenum.

Sammy · Post by **Sammy** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:08 pm

ahh right, well i know the ecotec motors have a different manifold to the vn-vr ones, i believe the ecotec is narrower than them but i can't remember.

but if the throttle body is in the middle of the manifold thats ecotec, the vn-vr have a 90 degree elbow off the back of the manifold pointing it out to the passenger side.

sloth · Post by **sloth** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:54 pm

vn vp have different port spacing on inlet and exhaust so heads are different to ecotech motors, so cant swap manifolds, vr have same port layout as vn vp,vr have roller rocker standard, vs ecotech didnt, they also played around with the stroke and bore size, any of these engines are way more refined than buick

FCOV6 · Post by **FCOV6** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:48 pm

sloth wrote:vn vp have different port spacing on inlet and exhaust so heads are different to ecotech motors, so cant swap manifolds, vr have same port layout as vn vp,vr have roller rocker standard, vs ecotech didnt, they also played around with the stroke and bore size, any of these engines are way more refined than buick

Well thats why it wont fit, more refined yes but when i bought the 2 buicks i have in 1985 the holden V6 wasnt even thought about, the buicks are definatley better built though as the heads and crank etc are all heavier than the holden parts. Do you know how i can tell which one i have ? The inlet ports are evenly spaced and it has roller rockers and it doesnt have the rear main housing that i have seen on ebay.

Sammy · Post by **Sammy** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:49 pm

if it looks like this its a vn-vr motor

also found this on the net ... ecotec

even with the cover on you can see the shape difference in the manifold.

other things i know about them is all the ones i've seen (ecotec) have a cone shaped valve spring and the rockers are actually a cast unit rather than the older ones which has a pressed rocker that looks almost identical to a holden 202 rocker....

the vr uses the same vn/vp pressed rocker but it has a roller bearing pivot. it also has a smaller diameter shaft on the retaining bolt with a big head ....

i'm not sure what you mean about the rear main housing ....

also on the heads .... vn-vr will look like this .... note these are vr heads and have the roller pivot.