EK Wagon project - Total rebuild

[Trev]

Finney, have you tried to adjust the lifter to look like the one next to it (more thread sticking out the top), that should take some of the angle out of it.
Having said that, I have 100% no experience with grey motors, so wait for another reply before touching it , Trev .

[Thommo]

It doesn't look right to me Finny.
It should be no different to any other exhaust rocker when fully open.
Something is different there. you'll have to have a good look.
Cheers
Jeff

[ek61]

you didnt put the lifter in upside down?
same im no mechanic but it looks wrong

[strogger]

As Trev has said, Back off the lock nut and take out some of the adjustment, That should bring it back in line with the others.

However;

When the rocker gear is not on the head and you turn engine by hand, does all the push rods rise and fall the by the same amount ?? If N# 6 Exh is rising higher and not dropping as low as the rest I would suggest a sticking cam follower..

I can help out with a rocker set and a couple of push rods if you want some to compare / replace??
Let me know and I'll bring them to the next club meeting

(This Wednesday)

[Craig]

Hi Finny the rocker looks bent to me
If you had to file it to clear the spanner then im sure it is
Do you have a spare on the othe waggon

[Finny]

Thanks for all the ideas.

I checked the lifter already, it's in the right way.
I can back off the lock nut and screw out the adjustment, however the reason I had to screw it in to where it is, is to remove all the slack and stop the pushrod from coming loose. (if that happened when the motor was running, I would have a lot of bent bits and have to start the rebuild all over again. I would hate to think of what noise it would make, but it would be very painful and bad.......

I didn't check or compare the height of the push rods rising and falling ,so I'll do that next and compare them. That should tell me if the issue is in the bottom half or in the rocker set. Should have checked that one earlier thanks for that idea.

Haven't even had time to go back to the other wagon since I dropped it off. I'm sure it will have the rocker, but not sure of how easy it will be to get at. Or what condition it will be in.

Anthony, I'll go back today and check more to see what's causing this. If you already have them out of a motor, than Yes, please bring them along to the meeting, I think it's only the rocker, at this stage. Don't go to any trouble as if I can get what I need of my parts motor than I'll use them. If I can

Craig, I'm of the same thought, it's a bent rocker arm. Will check and compare shortly.

[Malcolm]

Hey Finny,

You haven't dropped a washer or nut into the lifter prior to putting the pushrod in have you

[FB MAD]

Not an absolute grey expert here and relying on a 20 year + memory here as well since I last had a grey apart.

Just to clarify , the pic of the problem rocker is the inlet valve rocker, not the exhaust one as the exhaust valve for no 6 cyl is the outside one.

From memory there are two different size lifters and/or two different size pushrod lengths.

My master parts cattledog gives the changeover date for pushrods at FB starting from engine number B65280.

The lifter ( or tappet assembly as holden calls it ) also changed at this engine number.

There is a difference in the two tappet/pushrod types and from memory the pushrod lengths are different.

Depending on your engine number, perhaps this particular tappet and/or pushrod has been mixed up with one from the other pushrod/tappet design??

A mate of mine rebuilt an FC engine and mixed up the pushrods from a later engine in with the original ones ( many years ago ) and he had similar problems with not being able to adjust the clearances properly.

Probably the best one to expand on what I've written would be Dr Terry and he could correct any of the errors I may have mentioned above as well.

Like I said above, I'm relying on a 20 year memory so the above may have errors but it could be something to look at as well as what others have written above.

Or it could be a few other things that may be causing it too

Hope that helps.

[FB MAD]

Just another thought,

Can you take a pic from the manifold side of the motor showing that valve??

Is the valve in the open or part open position??

Or is it closed??

If that valve is closed and the pushrod/tappet is the right one for the motor you have and the cam lobe is at its highest point of lift then it's probably likely the rocker is bent.

They normally don't bend but if it has then it's a bloody good bend!!

I guess the rocker bush and shaft on that rocker isn't worn excessively??

Sorry to give you a big list of checks to do and possibilities but I wouldn't be running that motor as is with a rocker positioned as it shows in the photos.

Just doesn't look right to me

[EK283]

Guys,
I think the rocker is bent or split through under the adjusting nut.
Have a look at the photo and it appears to have a crack. When the push rod lifts the crack will become more evident if thats the case. By the look of it is definitely damaged and you should replace it before starting the motor or you will be building it again.
Regards Greg

[FB MAD]

I saw that mark there but pic wasn't close enough or clear enough and I just thought it was probably a casting/forging line.

You could be right there greg if it is a crack then that would then bend the rocker at that point and it would explain the angle of the rocker to tappet as it appears in the photo.

[Finny]

Guys, thanks for the extra ideas.
Went back this afternoon, found the problem, and got a solution.

First thing I did was measure the pushrod heights at full lift and the spring depression on the other side. Push rod height on high and low was identical to all the others (give or take a mm or so). The spring compression was not as significant on number 6. And yes it is the intake not the exhaust valve. So everything on the bottom end appeared to be correct.

I pulled out the rockers and I'll let the photo's tell the story.
All the following photos were taken with the rockers at the same height.
Problem one is 2nd from left. (can see file mark were I tried to get spanner to fit)


2nd from the front. Notice the bend. Valve ends are all level (at the same height).


2nd from the back.


Last one. 2nd from the right.


Tried to get a picture of underneath but came out too blurry.

There is a crack running right across, under the rocker. It's bent already and opens up more when placed under pressure. Thus the difference in spring compression when under load on that valve.

FB Mad, thanks for the info, it makes me a little worried about the lifters. Maybe I should replace them with the ones out of the other motor to ensure they are in the correct positions. I previously measured the Pushrods and they appear to be all the same height, so I don't think they matter. It's bent (a bloody good bend) and cracked (to allow even more bending).

Anthony, thanks for the previous offer but I won't need any parts at this stage. Got them off the other motor.

[Finny]

Greg, you've got great vision, that's the crack all right. I had to go back and look at the picture mtself to see it.

FB Mad, yes it is also a forging line, that's were it cracked.

[Finny]

OK, so the next step was to finally make a visit to my forgotten friend (Parts car) and see if the motor wasn't rusted out on the inside.

Rockers were in perfect condition and the oil was like new. don't know if the sediment settled over the years, but the top stuff was very good.



Now a question raised after taking off the rockers. The joint between the two rockers were the oil comes in.





The one on the second motor had a screw in it. Any ideas why ?

[sloth]

grey motors had 2 types of lifters and pushrods lenght was the difference check pushrod length and lifter length some one may have fitted wrong one or worn lobe on camshaft screw in oil block not standard people put it in to make oil go to rockers if oil is not coming out of bleed holes in rockers check rocker bushes as when the bush wears and oil grooves in bush not deep enough oil cant get to middle of rockers as the bush is flat and blocks oil hole of shaft