SATAN
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Harv's FED thread
Re: Harv's FED thread
getting my FB ute on the road
EK van on rotisserie
EK van on rotisserie
Re: Harv's FED thread
McGEE FED?
NORMAN FED?
REPCO FED?
OLD ALKY?
ARM (or A*SE) IN A SLINGSHOT?
RAIL ROADED?
G'DAY DIGGER?
DONT TELL THE KIDS BUT I SPENT THEIR INHERITANCE?
Cheers,
Harv
NORMAN FED?
REPCO FED?
OLD ALKY?
ARM (or A*SE) IN A SLINGSHOT?
RAIL ROADED?
G'DAY DIGGER?
DONT TELL THE KIDS BUT I SPENT THEIR INHERITANCE?
Cheers,
Harv
327 Chev EK wagon, original EK ute for Number 1 Daughter, an FB sedan meth monster project and a BB/MD grey motored FED.
Re: Harv's FED thread
Son in-law of Satan
Sent from my SM-G781B using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-G781B using Tapatalk
getting my FB ute on the road
EK van on rotisserie
EK van on rotisserie
Re: Harv's FED thread
phil soderstrom is the man you need to speak to about what you want to do with a front end dragster with a grey. from memory phil campaigned a FED with a grey in the 60's then went to a red and then a few different combinations, the guy is very very highly and well regarded in the racing scene with just about everyone from street cars, S/G to wild bunch and top fuel guys still seek his knowledge to this very day, actually the "who's who" of racing still consult him. he was the chief designer at dominator convertors then went on to his own with TCE, TCT, PTC(performance trans components specializing in powerglides for racers)and now has SDE convertors and various ignition companies such as ICE and ignition developments back in the day. he can be hard to get a hold of but well worth the effort. highly intelligent is all aspects of racing-car set up.
Re: Harv's FED thread
FED Up!
Re: Harv's FED thread
Getting a little more serious. Deposit paid, tubing now being purchased, and block now with the chassis builder for dummying up.
The FED will run as a Modified Eliminator (ANDRA) or Modified (IHRA), with a class designation of BB/MD.
The first “B” is for the grey motor – A for 8 or more cylinders, B for 6 cylinders, and C for 4 or less cylinders.
The second “B” is for the Norman – a second letter here indicates the engine is forced induction, no second letter would be naturally aspirated.
The M is for Modified, and the D for dragster.
Modified Eliminator is a nice way to race. Typically dragsters, altereds and hot rods. It’s a dial-your-own bracket, which lets you race two (often very) uneven cars against each other. Doesn’t matter how fast the FED is, as long as it is predicable (runs as close as practicable to the dial-in, or estimated quarter mile time). As the FED gets faster over time, I can change my dial-in and keep racing the same way.
The alternative would have been to run the FED as a Competition Eliminator. This class is a bit more rigid, and broken up into national record time brackets (e.g. a 9 second bracket). You then have to be the fastest in that bracket. It’s a game for people really wanting to be the fastest, and hard on the wallet trying to keep up with the Jones’s.
Cheers,
Harv
The FED will run as a Modified Eliminator (ANDRA) or Modified (IHRA), with a class designation of BB/MD.
The first “B” is for the grey motor – A for 8 or more cylinders, B for 6 cylinders, and C for 4 or less cylinders.
The second “B” is for the Norman – a second letter here indicates the engine is forced induction, no second letter would be naturally aspirated.
The M is for Modified, and the D for dragster.
Modified Eliminator is a nice way to race. Typically dragsters, altereds and hot rods. It’s a dial-your-own bracket, which lets you race two (often very) uneven cars against each other. Doesn’t matter how fast the FED is, as long as it is predicable (runs as close as practicable to the dial-in, or estimated quarter mile time). As the FED gets faster over time, I can change my dial-in and keep racing the same way.
The alternative would have been to run the FED as a Competition Eliminator. This class is a bit more rigid, and broken up into national record time brackets (e.g. a 9 second bracket). You then have to be the fastest in that bracket. It’s a game for people really wanting to be the fastest, and hard on the wallet trying to keep up with the Jones’s.
Cheers,
Harv
327 Chev EK wagon, original EK ute for Number 1 Daughter, an FB sedan meth monster project and a BB/MD grey motored FED.
Re: Harv's FED thread
With the chassis being built, it won't be too long before it needs a diff to hold "the other end" up. The original bang-go diff from an FB/EK is not going to be up to the abuse I'm intending. Weight is going to be a challenge, so I need something that will handle 200-odd horsepower, but not something that will support 1000-odd. No need for a 9". Whatever diff I build though needs to be reliable... in a FED you sit over the top of the diff, with the wheels beside your ears. Not the place for flying parts 
.
The simplest solution is to go for a Toyota diff. I'll use a "G" diff (8" live axle) from a HiAce (very similar to a Hilux). They will handle 400-odd ponies with no problem. The awesome bit is that they have a hell of a lot of ratios, and a lot of those ratios are in the tall end (great for rock crawling, better still for drag racing):
When hunting down a diff at the wreckers, the VIN plate tells the story. You will find a diff code like G392. The G bit indicates the 8" diff, the first two digits the ratio (in this case 39 = 3.154:1) and the last digit indicates the centre:
2 = 2 pinion open centre
3 = 2 pinion limited slip centre
4 = 4 pinion open centre
5 = 4 pinion limited slip centre
The 2-pinion diffs were used in the 4-cylinders, and the 4-pinion centres in the V6s. A 4-pinion centre (bearings increased from 40 to 50mm and better spider gears) is a bit of overkill for what I am doing. In any case, the spider gears (in fact the whole carrier) will get replaced by a full spool, so no worries about de-toothing the spider gears. A spool is a simple bit of steel that is bolted to the ring gear instead of the carrier, and effectively locks the two axles together. Lighter and stronger than the carrier, and helps prevent wheel slip. Looks like Nitro Gear (https://nitro-gear.com.au/products) make a spool for both the 4-pinion (part number FSTV6-30) and 2-pinion diffs (FST8-30).
The diff will get shortened (it will be less than a metre flange-to-flange). I need to have a conversation with the IHRA tech inspectors, as opinions vary as to whether I will need to have fully floating axles or not. The floaters are stronger (and often mandated for the top classes), but waaaaay overkill for the grey. They are installed by a weld-in kit and axle changes, but hoping to avoid the drama.
Cheers,
Harv
.The simplest solution is to go for a Toyota diff. I'll use a "G" diff (8" live axle) from a HiAce (very similar to a Hilux). They will handle 400-odd ponies with no problem. The awesome bit is that they have a hell of a lot of ratios, and a lot of those ratios are in the tall end (great for rock crawling, better still for drag racing):
- Toyota G diff codes.png (31.77 KiB) Viewed 1989 times
When hunting down a diff at the wreckers, the VIN plate tells the story. You will find a diff code like G392. The G bit indicates the 8" diff, the first two digits the ratio (in this case 39 = 3.154:1) and the last digit indicates the centre:
2 = 2 pinion open centre
3 = 2 pinion limited slip centre
4 = 4 pinion open centre
5 = 4 pinion limited slip centre
The 2-pinion diffs were used in the 4-cylinders, and the 4-pinion centres in the V6s. A 4-pinion centre (bearings increased from 40 to 50mm and better spider gears) is a bit of overkill for what I am doing. In any case, the spider gears (in fact the whole carrier) will get replaced by a full spool, so no worries about de-toothing the spider gears. A spool is a simple bit of steel that is bolted to the ring gear instead of the carrier, and effectively locks the two axles together. Lighter and stronger than the carrier, and helps prevent wheel slip. Looks like Nitro Gear (https://nitro-gear.com.au/products) make a spool for both the 4-pinion (part number FSTV6-30) and 2-pinion diffs (FST8-30).
The diff will get shortened (it will be less than a metre flange-to-flange). I need to have a conversation with the IHRA tech inspectors, as opinions vary as to whether I will need to have fully floating axles or not. The floaters are stronger (and often mandated for the top classes), but waaaaay overkill for the grey. They are installed by a weld-in kit and axle changes, but hoping to avoid the drama.
- floating axles.png (169.62 KiB) Viewed 1989 times
Cheers,
Harv
327 Chev EK wagon, original EK ute for Number 1 Daughter, an FB sedan meth monster project and a BB/MD grey motored FED.
Re: Harv's FED thread
That’s impressive Harv can’t wait to see what comes... makes me think I’m in kindy
cheers craig
cheers craigRe: Harv's FED thread
I didn't realise they had such a range of ratios. The 3.154 would work work for me.
Sent from my SM-G781B using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-G781B using Tapatalk
getting my FB ute on the road
EK van on rotisserie
EK van on rotisserie
Re: Harv's FED thread
I wouldn't have thought there would be a need for full floaters in such a low HP car ?
Mark Williams in USA will make a damn fine axle that will never break with what you are doing.
Greg
Mark Williams in USA will make a damn fine axle that will never break with what you are doing.
Greg
So many cars so little time!
Re: Harv's FED thread
Checked with the IHRA techs, and no need for floaters 
Only needed if quicker than 7.5 seconds or over 2500lb. If would need to drop a grey motor out of a helicopter to get it to travel 400m in 7.5 seconds
Cheers,
Harv
Only needed if quicker than 7.5 seconds or over 2500lb. If would need to drop a grey motor out of a helicopter to get it to travel 400m in 7.5 seconds
Cheers,
Harv
327 Chev EK wagon, original EK ute for Number 1 Daughter, an FB sedan meth monster project and a BB/MD grey motored FED.
Re: Harv's FED thread
Year 11 physics exam question: A helicopter hovering 400 m above ground drops a Holden engine of weight 200 kg. Neglecting air resistance, calculate the time the engine spends in free-fall.
s = u.t + 0.5a.t^2
The engine is initially at rest, so u = 0. I'm an engineer, so will take a as 10 m/s^2. And s = 400.
Thus 400 = 5t^2. Rearranging terms,
t = sqrt(400/5) (gets out with slide rule. Bugger it, no. Eighty is close enough to 81.)
A poofteenth less than nine seconds, sir. I suggest that the experiment be repeated on a planet more massive than Earth.
Rob
s = u.t + 0.5a.t^2
The engine is initially at rest, so u = 0. I'm an engineer, so will take a as 10 m/s^2. And s = 400.
Thus 400 = 5t^2. Rearranging terms,
t = sqrt(400/5) (gets out with slide rule. Bugger it, no. Eighty is close enough to 81.)
A poofteenth less than nine seconds, sir. I suggest that the experiment be repeated on a planet more massive than Earth.
Rob
Re: Harv's FED thread
Now that's funny. Even dropping a grey motor out of a helicopter, I only get a 9-second quarter.
Makes a top-fuel 4-second pass somewhat frightening.
I could of course increase the mass of the grey motor instead of finding a larger planet (gravity works both ways), but that would need one damn big helicopter
Cheers,
Harv
Makes a top-fuel 4-second pass somewhat frightening.
I could of course increase the mass of the grey motor instead of finding a larger planet (gravity works both ways), but that would need one damn big helicopter
Cheers,
Harv
327 Chev EK wagon, original EK ute for Number 1 Daughter, an FB sedan meth monster project and a BB/MD grey motored FED.
Re: Harv's FED thread
Correction: you'd increase the motor's weight by finding a bigger planet. Its mass would remain unchanged.
But strewth, a four-second quarter-mile . . . a = 2s/t^2, so a = 800/16 = 50. Five gees. Average, not peak. Peak acceleration would be higher, verging on blackout. That's John Stapp material.
Rob
But strewth, a four-second quarter-mile . . . a = 2s/t^2, so a = 800/16 = 50. Five gees. Average, not peak. Peak acceleration would be higher, verging on blackout. That's John Stapp material.
Rob