What to use when bolting subframe to body?
What to use when bolting subframe to body?
I'm about to bolt my subframe back onto my body and was wondering what some of you folks have used ie sound deadener between the two or just cold gal paint? My subframe came off a different car and was sandblated before I got it, does any one know what the factory did? cheers, Nick.
Yes dear, just like you said. Theese are the words of an understanding marrige.
Re: What to use when bolting subframe to body?
I got a body here with a subframe removed and a subframe sitting here as well mate.............both have no paint at all in the area where the subframe bolts on to the firewall or on the subframe ...a little butyl mastic around the bolt holes on the firewall thats it ...I would use the cold gal treatment and some butyl mastic for sealing ...come take a look mate ............Fingers
Don’t you find it Funny that after Monday(M) and Tuesday(T), the rest of the week says WTF?
Re: What to use when bolting subframe to body?
I firmly believe any bare metal should have an extremely sound coat/s of a quality paint system applied..... an etch primer and top coats.
I would STRONGLY suggest that body deadener (bituminous) is NEVER applied to the mating surfaces of these components.
I believe butyl-mastic to be the most appropriate sealant for bolt holes etc..... but would re-state that the mating surfaces should be painted and cured prior to assembly.
frats,
Rosco
I would STRONGLY suggest that body deadener (bituminous) is NEVER applied to the mating surfaces of these components.
I believe butyl-mastic to be the most appropriate sealant for bolt holes etc..... but would re-state that the mating surfaces should be painted and cured prior to assembly.
frats,
Rosco
Re: What to use when bolting subframe to body?
Thanks Rosco, paint it is, cheers.
Yes dear, just like you said. Theese are the words of an understanding marrige.
Re: What to use when bolting subframe to body?
Sure, Neatride.....
I would further suggest that any suspicious looking surface be treated with de-oxidine.... and stop any rust/surface rust prior to painting.
When the two are brought together in assembly - there is a fairly large gap between the firewall and the subframe shroud, where the "legs" are located as they follow the profile of the toe-board down towards the floor - my concerns are for any water/crud etc running down this gap and building up.
I would suggest that butyl-mastic be applied to the areas around the bolt/screw/self tapper holes, but not to fill the gaps between the legs and toe-board.
I am undecided whether it should be applied between the sub-frame lower shroud and the upper sheet face of the sub-frame..... brb - I'll take a peek at the factory workshop manual....
Ok - right from the "horse"....
Section 1, Page - Body 1-3
"Before installing the frame assembly, check body and frame for correct alignment (Fig. 1-8).
Apply sealing cement between frame and body attaching surfaces.
Note: when installing a replacement frame to body, it is necessary to drill an 11/32 in. hole in each frame diagonal brace to take a 3/8 in. self tapping screw."
There you go - they state to seal the mating faces.... I would suggest butyl mastic to be the most appropriate NO SILICONE! - ever!
As the frame is attached and tightened - excess 'mastic will purge - just check there aren't any voids where rubbish can build up - and check there is always plenty of releif for water to drain away below...
One further preventative measure to take with the sub-frame - and everyone should do this:
Fit two blanking plugs into the subframe fron cross support (the holes provided to fit a socket through to bolt up the crossmember outrigger...
These are a definite aperture through which rubbish and water will enter from the radiator baffle...... it will get into the sub-frame and can't get out.
On some sub-frames, there are two very small drainage holes at the underside corners...... many don't have them.....
Even with these - there is absolutely no way leaves, stones and anything large enough to get into the frame can get out........ guess you can appreciate the outcome...?
I fitted two rubber domed blanking plugs into mine - I cannot state the exact size - but believe they were 1"..... available from Clark Rubber for next to nothing...
The rubbish and debris can then find its way out between the radiator lower tank and the semi-circlular cut-out in the sub-frame front skirt (no, smart people - as many people have "told" me - it was not originally designed for a crank handle to be used - it's there to fit a harmonic balancer removal tool)......
Hope some of this helps, Neatride..... it's all about learning, maintaining and enjoying.....
frats,
Rosco
frats,
Rosco
I would further suggest that any suspicious looking surface be treated with de-oxidine.... and stop any rust/surface rust prior to painting.
When the two are brought together in assembly - there is a fairly large gap between the firewall and the subframe shroud, where the "legs" are located as they follow the profile of the toe-board down towards the floor - my concerns are for any water/crud etc running down this gap and building up.
I would suggest that butyl-mastic be applied to the areas around the bolt/screw/self tapper holes, but not to fill the gaps between the legs and toe-board.
I am undecided whether it should be applied between the sub-frame lower shroud and the upper sheet face of the sub-frame..... brb - I'll take a peek at the factory workshop manual....
Ok - right from the "horse"....
Section 1, Page - Body 1-3
"Before installing the frame assembly, check body and frame for correct alignment (Fig. 1-8).
Apply sealing cement between frame and body attaching surfaces.
Note: when installing a replacement frame to body, it is necessary to drill an 11/32 in. hole in each frame diagonal brace to take a 3/8 in. self tapping screw."
There you go - they state to seal the mating faces.... I would suggest butyl mastic to be the most appropriate NO SILICONE! - ever!
As the frame is attached and tightened - excess 'mastic will purge - just check there aren't any voids where rubbish can build up - and check there is always plenty of releif for water to drain away below...
One further preventative measure to take with the sub-frame - and everyone should do this:
Fit two blanking plugs into the subframe fron cross support (the holes provided to fit a socket through to bolt up the crossmember outrigger...
These are a definite aperture through which rubbish and water will enter from the radiator baffle...... it will get into the sub-frame and can't get out.
On some sub-frames, there are two very small drainage holes at the underside corners...... many don't have them.....
Even with these - there is absolutely no way leaves, stones and anything large enough to get into the frame can get out........ guess you can appreciate the outcome...?
I fitted two rubber domed blanking plugs into mine - I cannot state the exact size - but believe they were 1"..... available from Clark Rubber for next to nothing...
The rubbish and debris can then find its way out between the radiator lower tank and the semi-circlular cut-out in the sub-frame front skirt (no, smart people - as many people have "told" me - it was not originally designed for a crank handle to be used - it's there to fit a harmonic balancer removal tool)......
Hope some of this helps, Neatride..... it's all about learning, maintaining and enjoying.....
frats,
Rosco
frats,
Rosco
Re: What to use when bolting subframe to body?
Thanks for taking the time, most appreciated rosco, cheers, Nick. 
Yes dear, just like you said. Theese are the words of an understanding marrige.
Re: What to use when bolting subframe to body?
Pix as you go please, Nick,......
don't be afraid to ask - this next bit can be terminal, if you intend to keep the vehicle for a long, long time....
There's another thread going in the forum where a chap is in trouble with the outer sub-frame mount posts on the front sill of the body...... please keep an eye on this...
You might light to have a very close look at your four body mounts..... the outer ones are the issue.
You will also find, if you go under your vehicle - that there are (or should be) about four elongated drain ports for the sills.......
Our "skilled" labor, in the early sixties - were obviously not aware of these, the importance of them or the outcome of what they did to them.....
The inner and outer sills are spot welded along the bottom..... you will find in just about every one of our models, most/all of these ports have been crushed and welded in the process..... it has been the root issue of all sill rust problems....... open yours up whilst you are at it..... if you can't, then drill some drainage holes underneath and locate them so that they open up the very lowest point of the sill mating joint.
The outer bolt sub-frame body mounts can be better viewed through the apertures from inside the vehicle..... the outer sides of this you can see with the frame separated.
You might like to consider fitting rubber plugs into the inner holes of the sub-frame when you have fitted and bolted it to the body.
It just adds a little extra protection to anything getting thrown up from the tyres and building up around the nut/washer......
When you gain access to view the front internal cavity of the body sill - you might also find a socket in there - whenever a front fender was removed (and please remember this Nick when you come to fitting yours) - the socket used to undo/do up the rear bolts from inside the vehicle - more often than not would disconnect from the extension as it was drawn back through the access apetures... and the socket would fall into this cavity...... it is very, very hard to retrieve from there... most just purchased another socket and kept "Mum" about leaving one in there....
You will only find one...... but it took all of us to drop one before we were wise to the potential...... and even more so - how hard it was to try and get it out......
Some caked up the bottom with fishoil or ever worse, bitumen body deadener to stop the socket rolling around...... it drove some people into actully selling the vehicle.....
When you come to fitting your fenders, securely wrap some masking tape around the extension and socket....... you'll see....... priceless!
You can shine a very bright light down from the top whilst holding a small circular mirror angled downwards..... if yours is as most are - you might just be a little shocked at what you see in there....... might find some pre-decimal "dosh" as well.......
Sorry about the waffle - just more of the battle most of us have had to keep these old buses on the road.......
frats,
Rosco
don't be afraid to ask - this next bit can be terminal, if you intend to keep the vehicle for a long, long time....
There's another thread going in the forum where a chap is in trouble with the outer sub-frame mount posts on the front sill of the body...... please keep an eye on this...
You might light to have a very close look at your four body mounts..... the outer ones are the issue.
You will also find, if you go under your vehicle - that there are (or should be) about four elongated drain ports for the sills.......
Our "skilled" labor, in the early sixties - were obviously not aware of these, the importance of them or the outcome of what they did to them.....
The inner and outer sills are spot welded along the bottom..... you will find in just about every one of our models, most/all of these ports have been crushed and welded in the process..... it has been the root issue of all sill rust problems....... open yours up whilst you are at it..... if you can't, then drill some drainage holes underneath and locate them so that they open up the very lowest point of the sill mating joint.
The outer bolt sub-frame body mounts can be better viewed through the apertures from inside the vehicle..... the outer sides of this you can see with the frame separated.
You might like to consider fitting rubber plugs into the inner holes of the sub-frame when you have fitted and bolted it to the body.
It just adds a little extra protection to anything getting thrown up from the tyres and building up around the nut/washer......
When you gain access to view the front internal cavity of the body sill - you might also find a socket in there - whenever a front fender was removed (and please remember this Nick when you come to fitting yours) - the socket used to undo/do up the rear bolts from inside the vehicle - more often than not would disconnect from the extension as it was drawn back through the access apetures... and the socket would fall into this cavity...... it is very, very hard to retrieve from there... most just purchased another socket and kept "Mum" about leaving one in there....
You will only find one...... but it took all of us to drop one before we were wise to the potential...... and even more so - how hard it was to try and get it out......
Some caked up the bottom with fishoil or ever worse, bitumen body deadener to stop the socket rolling around...... it drove some people into actully selling the vehicle.....
When you come to fitting your fenders, securely wrap some masking tape around the extension and socket....... you'll see....... priceless!
You can shine a very bright light down from the top whilst holding a small circular mirror angled downwards..... if yours is as most are - you might just be a little shocked at what you see in there....... might find some pre-decimal "dosh" as well.......
Sorry about the waffle - just more of the battle most of us have had to keep these old buses on the road.......
frats,
Rosco
Re: What to use when bolting subframe to body?
S/Tim,
some people never get to recover them..... rust holes eventually grow to provide the escape.....
If you see a 3/8" socket on the road...... it's probably from an FB/EK......
frats,
Rosco
some people never get to recover them..... rust holes eventually grow to provide the escape.....
If you see a 3/8" socket on the road...... it's probably from an FB/EK......
frats,
Rosco
-
parisian62
- Posts: 3997
- Joined: Wed May 11, 2005 2:19 pm
- State: NSW
- Location: Sydney
- Contact:
Re: What to use when bolting subframe to body?
I dropped a bolt down there once ...to get it out I got a small length of garden hose and taped it to the end of the vaccuum cleaner nozzle...and turned the vaccuum on...
Feelin free in a '61 FB.
Member of FB-EK Holden Car Club Of NSW Inc.
Check out the Rebuild of Old Timer
Member of FB-EK Holden Car Club Of NSW Inc.
Check out the Rebuild of Old Timer
Re: What to use when bolting subframe to body?
Ingenious, Stewart......
I expect that you may very well have plundered a lot more than your bolt...?
frats,
Rosco
I expect that you may very well have plundered a lot more than your bolt...?
frats,
Rosco
Re: What to use when bolting subframe to body?
Hi Roscorosco wrote:Sure, Neatride.....
I would further suggest that any suspicious looking surface be treated with de-oxidine.... and stop any rust/surface rust prior to painting.
When the two are brought together in assembly - there is a fairly large gap between the firewall and the subframe shroud, where the "legs" are located as they follow the profile of the toe-board down towards the floor - my concerns are for any water/crud etc running down this gap and building up.
I would suggest that butyl-mastic be applied to the areas around the bolt/screw/self tapper holes, but not to fill the gaps between the legs and toe-board.
I am undecided whether it should be applied between the sub-frame lower shroud and the upper sheet face of the sub-frame..... brb - I'll take a peek at the factory workshop manual....
Ok - right from the "horse"....
Section 1, Page - Body 1-3
"Before installing the frame assembly, check body and frame for correct alignment (Fig. 1-8).
Apply sealing cement between frame and body attaching surfaces.
Note: when installing a replacement frame to body, it is necessary to drill an 11/32 in. hole in each frame diagonal brace to take a 3/8 in. self tapping screw."
There you go - they state to seal the mating faces.... I would suggest butyl mastic to be the most appropriate NO SILICONE! - ever!
As the frame is attached and tightened - excess 'mastic will purge - just check there aren't any voids where rubbish can build up - and check there is always plenty of releif for water to drain away below...
One further preventative measure to take with the sub-frame - and everyone should do this:
Fit two blanking plugs into the subframe fron cross support (the holes provided to fit a socket through to bolt up the crossmember outrigger...
These are a definite aperture through which rubbish and water will enter from the radiator baffle...... it will get into the sub-frame and can't get out.
On some sub-frames, there are two very small drainage holes at the underside corners...... many don't have them.....
Even with these - there is absolutely no way leaves, stones and anything large enough to get into the frame can get out........ guess you can appreciate the outcome...?
I fitted two rubber domed blanking plugs into mine - I cannot state the exact size - but believe they were 1"..... available from Clark Rubber for next to nothing...
The rubbish and debris can then find its way out between the radiator lower tank and the semi-circlular cut-out in the sub-frame front skirt (no, smart people - as many people have "told" me - it was not originally designed for a crank handle to be used - it's there to fit a harmonic balancer removal tool)......
Hope some of this helps, Neatride..... it's all about learning, maintaining and enjoying.....
frats,
Rosco
frats,
Rosco
Can you or someone else provide me a copy of the sub frame alignment process as mentioned above
Regards
Kel