rear axle bearing/seals/leaks.

[skin_dog]

I have read up on the other threads concerning this topic but it still left me a little hazy. Also i've got another questions as well.

Firstly here's whats happened:
I changed my diff to a 3.55 a little while back and when doing so noticed my rear brakes were soaked with oil coming from the axle. Went to Repco and of course they gave me the EJ onwards cup style seal to go into the axle housing. I thought the problem was solved. Its not.

I've pulled my axles out again and while inspecting my axle setup and referring to my Gregorys manual i notice that i have NO deflector seals. Could this be the cause of all my leaks? The bearings appear to be ok (but i'm a backyard hack). Also where the hell do these deflector seals go? Please feel free to doodle on my included diagram.

Also i have these questions in regards to the other posts and threads about this problem:

1. The seals i got from Repco are useless? Interesting that Rares have the same seal included in their EK bearing kit by the way. Also on the AboutTimeSpares site they have the Repco cup style one AND a large ring style one listed under FB/EK. How does a novice know what to buy when every shop/store/manufacturer tells you different things?!?!?

2. If i get this Timken 2764 kit is that ALL i need? Or do i need to use that bearing in conjunction with something else?

3. The diagram below is how my stuff was assembled, i hope thats how its meant to be??









Thanks guys.

[skin_dog]

Obviously the axle housing in my diagram is NTS.

[parisian62]

Hi Utek

I can only help with some of your questions...

Firstly great diagram! the bit called 'wtf is this called' is the brake anchor - your brake shoes 'pivot' off this. The bit you call 'Deflector Plate' is another retainer plate to stop your axle from falling out.

In your 3rd pic down is the deflector shield - it is the black plastic piece with the circular metal spring. This has to be pressed into the diff (making sure the metal spring doen't fall off) and does the main job of holding your diff oil in. When you put your axle back in don't drag it along the deflector - make sure you support the axle until it engages with the diff.

Sorry can't help you with part numbers etc but I know I had a hell of a job getting my new bearings on as the O ring wouldn't seat inside the axle housing. On my mechanics advice I removed the O ring... so jury is out to see what happens as I still have a way to go to get Old Timer back on the road...

If you need detailed pics let me know.

Stewart

[MyEKisdriven]

The Timken 2764 kit I mentioned in a previous thread should include everything you'll need to seal off your axle "as far as I know",

I have not been down to pick up the kit I'd ordered (, though Supercheap ) as I've had to order another kit....

Supercheap had told me that the kit was for both axles.... but when it arrived it was for only one side so they've had to order another one for me......
They'd insisted the kit I ordered last week was for both sides but it was not the case.
Clearly I was a little pissed with them when I found this out, then to rub salt in the cheaky wench behind the counter commented " that's what you get when you play with old cars" !!!

The 2nd kit should be in the shop by next Tuesday, if it's not complete with all the seals I'll let you know.

PS: What a pain in the arse this has turned out to be Originally all I was trying to do was replace my handbrake cable.....

Cheers,
Graeme.

[wot179]

That chisel mark on your axle where the locking ring has been knocked off in the past could be chopping up the cup seal when the axle spins,or it might be nicking the seal when you slide the axle in.

It wouldnt hurt to file it down smooth,but be careful not to damage the rest of the surface that the cups seal runs on.

[rosco]

Hi UTEK,
It has been so long since I worked on an EK rear axle housing I'll leave it to others - just can't remember what was in there, sorry.

If you take a peek at your pix, you will see that the "cup" or "plastic", as Stewart calls it - type seal should stop any oil from the diff getting past.
The actual seal lip is held firmly around the machined surface of the axle by that small spring.

My guess is that there is some damage to the machined axle seal surface - or the axle assembly has been drawn over the lip of the seal during removal/installation.

I have an EH rear axle in mine. Apart from the cup seal, the only other seal is a paper gasket between the brake backing plate and the ent of the axle housing.
There is a small semi-circular cutaway at the base of the housing, supposedly to allow any seepage to escape....

I don't know if the actual bearing supplied in your kit has a sealed outer packing. I suspect that it is differential oil which is contaminating your brake linings/shoes.

Take a very close look at the machined surface of the axle seal surface (the one which your pic shows as a shiny line around the axle) - if it is broken by even the smallest nick - it will chew out the lip of the bearing cup seal in no time. Any oil running out to the end of the axle housing will quickly pass this - especially when it gets warm.

Stewart, I have also heard that many do not fit that "O" ring... and have not had issue.
I was told to clean out the axle housing with some fine emery then wet and dry - and prior to assembly, just a smear of rubber grease - it worked for me.
I recall getting the blasted axles out was an absolute drama. Eventually a slide hammer did the trick - some tell me to put he brake drum on backwards and just fit three nuts down to about three threads... working with the weight of the drum as a slide hammer usually brings the axle out.
Every care MUST be taken once it pops not to let the axle rest or be drawn across the bearing cup seal lip...

sorry for the novel,

frats,
Rosco

[skin_dog]

Thanks for all the info and advie guys, i'll be checking a few things today and might even try a leak test with water (unless that's a bad idea?)
i'll post the outcome,
Cheers

[rosco]

Whoa! UTEK - NO! water........ keep away from water with everything in your EK apart except for coolant, washing and windscreen bottles.
Anything which needs oil to lubricate it will be destroyed if contaminated with water - oil naturally floats on water, water will not lubricate finely machined metal parts...

frats,
Rosco

[parisian62]

Hi Rosco

Stewart, I have also heard that many do not fit that "O" ring... and have not had issue.
I was told to clean out the axle housing with some fine emery then wet and dry - and prior to assembly, just a smear of rubber grease - it worked for me.

I tried that too...no dice for me.

Stewart

[roto]

Hi UTEK,
The seal on the 3rd pic doesn't look like the correct seal for a FB or EK diff.
From memory that seal was first used on EJs. Someone correct me if i'm wrong.
NO WATER
roto

[skin_dog]

OK no water, i thought it might be a bad idea, glad i checked.

As far as that seal goes, from what i gather it is an EJ one but it seems to fit perfectly snug. Could it be a simple case of new o-rings?

[rosco]

Very comforted to learn that you won't try the water-tight test, UTEK......
As mentioned, I haven't seen the insides of an FB/EK rear axle seal assembly for nearly thirty years....I'm hoping someone will come on and give us both a pretty good series of pix showing the ariginal components.

As far as I can see, that machined surface ont he axle is definitely meant for the cup style seal...... and, if this is so - I can't understand why oil would leak past it without some form of defect.... the axle housing is not under positive pressure - there is a vent assembly fitted to the housing.... although I have never tested this vent to see if it is one direction only... ie, allows pressure out but not in or vice-versa....
if I were to guess, I would suggest it prevents any vacuum forming when the axle housing cools - thereby resisting any water to enter if the axle is submerged when warm.... but I do not know - and probably shouldn't make such statements of post my opinions....

One question, however - have you removed both axles and found BOTH brake assemblies saturated in diff oil?... if it is only the left side - then I would almost be confident you have a defect within the bearing housing or the axle itself....

frats,
Rosco

[skin_dog]

Leaking from both sides, not sure if that's good or bad.

[Devilrod]

Leaking from both sides, not sure if that's good or bad.

Bad! And you're right it looks very much like an EJ seal. Can't help on what it's meant to be though..... Sorry

[rosco]

It's probaby good news, UTEK - both sides suggests a component mis-match... one side would have had me concerned.

Anyone with a Master Parts Catalogue might be able to throw some light on the different seals.... I have one (MPC) - but it's buried so deep under boxes and boxes of books.... I'd really hope someone has one handy..... UTEK - if no one pops up in the next day or so - I'll dig mine out and see what I can find....

Bearing (no pun intended) in mind, I don't think you'd get a warm reception at a bearing distributor if you challenged them to test the integrity of their data-base....... the MPC will only list numbers - sometimes with a line drawing...

frats,
Rosco