Points clash with dizzy body?

Includes wiring and battery, generating system, starting system,
ignition system, windscreen wipers, lighting system and instruments and gauges.

Moderators: reidy, Blacky

Post Reply
User avatar
Harv
Posts: 5502
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:00 pm
State: NSW
Location: Sydney, Australia

Points clash with dizzy body?

Post by Harv »

Hmmm... have been hunting a miss for a while, which has progressively got worse. Yanked the dizzy today, and found the points gap had dropped to 0.005" - :shock: . Points were relatively new (6 months ago). Taking a good look at the dizzy, it looks like the points have been fouling on the dizzy wall :econfused: .

I'll try to explain it, as the photos I took don't show it clear enough. The points have two pieces:
a) a spring steel part with a lead hanging off it that is under +12V, and
b) a (much thicker) part that has both the pivot point and adjustment hole that is earthed through the dizzy body.
It is the latter part b) that was fouling.

The dizzy main body internal has two "lumps" inside. The "lumps" act as nuts for the screws that hold the distributor cap clamps on. It is one of the "lumps" that is fouling the points.

As the breaker plate inside the dizzy tries to return under spring tension, the points rotate with the breaker plate, and were hitting the "lump", preventing the breaker plate from fully returning. As the car has been operating (and the breaker plate frequently turns between advance and retard), the points get repeatedly hammering by the lump. There is a distinct mark on the points where the lump has hammered it. The repeated hamering appears to have helped close the points gap from 0.012"-0.016" back to 0.005".

If I open up the gap in the points, the points now longer hit the lump. However, to do this means that the points gap is way too big - at 0.016", the lump still clashes. If I bend the "part b)" portion of the points slightly away from the dizzy wall, they no longer foul, and all is well (picture a much relieved Harv going for a test-drive late this afternoon).

I've tried both Bosch GB504 points, and Echelin CS323V points - both seem to foul. Dizzy is a standard Bosch FB/EK item (7417802 part number on the plate riveted to the dizzy body).

Anyone seen this before (or is there something really, really simple that I am missing here :oops: )?

Cheers,
Harv.
327 Chev EK wagon, original EK ute for Number 1 Daughter, an FB sedan meth monster project and a BB/MD grey motored FED.
Blacky
Posts: 13446
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2004 8:58 am
State: WA
Location: up in the Perth hills

Re: Points clash with dizzy body?

Post by Blacky »

Harv wrote:Anyone seen this before (or is there something really, really simple that I am missing here :oops: )?

Cheers,
Harv.

Yeah - buy a Pertronix :D :D :D :D
I started with nothing and still have most of it left.


Foundation member #61 of FB/EK Holden club of W.A.
User avatar
Harv
Posts: 5502
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:00 pm
State: NSW
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Points clash with dizzy body?

Post by Harv »

:lol:

I had to laugh - the FB has had three sets of points in it (for various reasons) over the last few years. The SBC (same vintage) in the wagon has the same shitty points that came with the motor... and runs beautifully. Maybe its a sign to extract my digit and finish the project :oops: :lol: .

Cheers,
Harv.
327 Chev EK wagon, original EK ute for Number 1 Daughter, an FB sedan meth monster project and a BB/MD grey motored FED.
User avatar
Harv
Posts: 5502
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:00 pm
State: NSW
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Points clash with dizzy body?

Post by Harv »

Maybe the photo will help - the red wire is only there to point to the area of the "clash":
Image

Cheers,
Harv
327 Chev EK wagon, original EK ute for Number 1 Daughter, an FB sedan meth monster project and a BB/MD grey motored FED.
User avatar
MeFB
Posts: 1717
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:08 pm
State: NOT ENTERED
Location: WA and Lumut

Re: Points clash with dizzy body?

Post by MeFB »

Harv,

My two cents worth...

From the little research I've done, GB504 points come in two types. There's the earlier ones that come in two pieces and fit the breaker plates that have the integral pivot post. The two halves of the points assembly are placed over the pivot post and retained with an R-clip. The disadvantage is that the breaker plate would have to be replaced as its pivot post wore.

The later points come as an assembled unit and have the pivot post integral to the points assembly. These fit a later version of the breaker plate that does not have a pivot post. This way only the points need to be replaced.

I think maybe your dizzy originally had the earlier breaker plate, with the pivot post, that has been replaced by the newer version that does not. This might have slightly changed the height at which the points sit relative to the 'bump' or some other tolerance.

I have several sets of both versions of the GB504 points at home (NOS in their boxes). Exactly the same part number, but very different parts :?

:arrow: :D
Alan
Member No.1 of the FB EK Holden Car Club of WA (Woo-hoo :D sweet!)
User avatar
Harv
Posts: 5502
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:00 pm
State: NSW
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Points clash with dizzy body?

Post by Harv »

Cool... thanks Alan :D !

Looking through the 20 Beers Master Old Farts Cattledog, it looks like the breaker plate and points change was made midway through the FX run. Fair chance that my dizzy has been hybridised over the last half century. For now, I'm rather relieved that a minor adjustment to the points (with a hammer :oops: ) is making the assembly work.

Cheers, and thanks,
Harv.
327 Chev EK wagon, original EK ute for Number 1 Daughter, an FB sedan meth monster project and a BB/MD grey motored FED.
User avatar
MeFB
Posts: 1717
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:08 pm
State: NOT ENTERED
Location: WA and Lumut

Re: Points clash with dizzy body?

Post by MeFB »

Harv wrote:Cool... thanks Alan :D !

Looking through the 20 Beers Master Old Farts Cattledog, it looks like the breaker plate and points change was made midway through the FX run. Fair chance that my dizzy has been hybridised over the last half century. For now, I'm rather relieved that a minor adjustment to the points (with a hammer :oops: ) is making the assembly work.

Cheers, and thanks,
Harv.
That might have been when they changed to the Bosch dizzy's. My EK has the two-piece points, and I'm pretty certain that they are original.

Anyhoo, glad to hear that a blow with the good old knock-o-meter fixed the problem. The rest is just academic.

:arrow: :D
Alan
Member No.1 of the FB EK Holden Car Club of WA (Woo-hoo :D sweet!)
Post Reply