I need help from a grey motor guru!

[John]

As per my other thread in here I bought a138 "going" grey.
When I was about to fire her up for the first time I had a sump full of water.
I took the head and sump off it tonight and I expected to see a blown head gasket but it looked fine
So, do I drop a new head gasket on it, tension it down properly and hope for the best?
What else should I be looking for? Warped head?
Bloody cars

[MeFB]

I'm not a guru, but there is one on the FE/FC forum who advised someone with the same problem (water in the sump) to check pretty much the same things that Tim mentioned i.e.

1). Welsh plugs
2). Cracked head
3). Cracked block

Problem turned out to be welsh plugs (cheap and easy to fix ).

[John]

Thanks mate but if it's a welsh plug it would be running down the outside of the block, surely not into the sump?
Or am I missing the obvious?

[zl296]

sounds like crakd head...
hope l am wrong.

[Blacky]

John, there is a welsh plug behind the sideplate - if that has rotted out the water will go straight into the sump.
Were the lifters and pushrods covered in water/milkshake when you pulled the head ???

[John]

Thanks blacky. Tim did mention them in my other thread. I should of pointed out that they were fine
No sign of water any where other than a sump full

[John]

I think i'll replace those two welsh plugs, JUST to be sure. Whack the head and sump back on her and try again.
Anyone know the size of those two welsh plugs behind the side plate?

Thanks everyone for your help.
Much appriciated

[Stygian]

Cracked heads are unfortunately quite common on grey motors. If it's not welsh plugs, it's a good chance the head is cracked. Best to source another one. If it's not cracked but warped, grey heads can withstand a bit of machining.

[John]

I have a head off a 132 sitting around? Any difference at all to the 138 head?
Maybe i can clean that up and dropon it.

Thanks mate

[Stygian]

The wise thing to do is to have the head professionally crack tested and inspected. At the same time, you might as well get the whole thing rebuilt with hardened valve seats, so you can run on unleaded without putting lubricant in the tank each time you fill up. Maybe even red motor or V6 valves for a bit more flow and a slight head shave for a bit more compression.

[John]

Thanks to all for the advice.

I decided to put the new head gasket on it and see what happens.
So, last night I was back under her, sump back on, then after cleaning the head up as best i could a put it back on.
TENSIONED DOWN CORRECTLY and so far the only thing in the sump is oil. Radiator is full. So thats a good sign.

I rechecked it all this morning and apart from a couple of oil drips where I pulled the tappet cover back off last night things were still looking ok.
I guess the real test will be when i try and put a fire in her belly.

If I have the same problem then out she'll come and get the full rebuild I was really hoping to put off until after Xmas this year.

you blokes really are a true wealth of information. Even when the old girls on the road I think I'll hang around here.

[MeFB]

you blokes really are a true wealth of information. Even when the old girls on the road I think I'll hang around here.

That's exactly when guys like you and me will need the forum the most

[Stygian]

I decided to put the new head gasket on it and see what happens.
So, last night I was back under her, sump back on, then after cleaning the head up as best i could a put it back on.
TENSIONED DOWN CORRECTLY and so far the only thing in the sump is oil. Radiator is full. So thats a good sign.

Yes it is, but a crack may only leak when the cooling system is under pressure (as you've probably guessed). So fingers crossed. If it turns out to be cracked, then the 132 head as per Tim's post is an inexpensive way out (providing of course that it isn't cracked). If it runs nicely and doesn't blow smoke, then you might get a few more miles out of her. But do you yourself a favour and replace the fibre cam timing gear with a new unit or a steel one. Trust me, it's a matter of WHEN, not IF, an old fibre gear will let go and leave you stranded.

If you need to get a reconditioned head, then it usually costs around $900 - $1000. The price this guy on eBay charges seems pretty reasonable by comparison:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/HOLDEN-138-G ... 415fa1ead2

One last thing, converting to electronic ignition works wonders on an old grey. The Pertronix 1864A kit is available on eBay:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Pertronix-Ig ... 2eb82e5ed8

I have it in writing from Pertronix USA that their kit is compatible with copper or steel cored ignition leads, if you intend to run these.

The eBay seller "GMHNASCO" has his kit here: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Holden-48-FX ... 23178a361d

[John]

Thanks guys. It will be a Sunday driver and I want it as standard as possible. My daughter has her leavers dinner in December so I need it ready by then. I'm happy to rebuild the donk AFTER the event but I need every cent in the mean time to spend elsewhere on it.
I hope she starts ok. If she blows a little smoke it will be ok for the one day then I'll pull her down.
http://www.fbekholden.com/forum/viewtop ... 6&start=60

The pics wii show you where it's at and how much I have left to do

[Stygian]

No offence taken Tim, nor was any disrespect intended towards your post. I was working from the assumption that an inspection of the head for corrosion had been done and the results negative.

My fibre timing gear most certainly did not last 70-80K miles. I know the inconvenience of breaking down in the middle of the night due to a fibre timing gear failure. Yes, I replaced it myself in my EK when I was an impoverished student, only using an engine reconditioner to remove the fibre gear from the camshaft and press on a new steel one. I just made sure the lifters were matched to the correct slots in the block and to their pushrods (pushing them through an old egg carton worked a treat there). I thought because my EK had been sitting for some time before I bought it and not used, the fibre gear had become brittle and this caused the failure. The Dave Beers Theory is that it is due to the stress the fuel pump places on the gear...

I recommended an electronic ignition kit simply because several club and forum members have used them and swear by the improvement they make (e.g., "Sputzwagon"). Moreover, they can be installed without professional assistance. Yes, there is one in my grey. Of course, a grey will run on points just fine, like mine did for several years.

No, I was not suggesting John spend $2K. A reco head, Pertronix ignition kit and fibre timing gear all sourced from eBay is $595 + $130 + $170 + $61.95 total postage, which is $956.95. Overall, a relatively inexpensive freshen up for a grey which gives some peace of mind.

John has expended quite a deal of effort in the body and paintwork of his EK project and I thought he may wish the engine to be of comparable standard. In any case, my thoughts are purely his for the taking - he can heed them or he can ignore them.