fbekholden.com

Hi all

Anyone found a way of lightening the effort needed to compress an aussie 4 speed - M20 clutch.
I have had a few cars with these boxes and they have all had heavy hydraulic clutches.some have had CRS cast alloy mounting brackets... others are Holden items.
Is there any advantage in setting the clutch slave cylinder up so it is positioned or angled further out from the box and therefore gaining more leverage on the clutch throwout fork/arm ??

I aint getting any younger and have a crook left knee from too may motorbike "get offs " on dirt tracks.

Have driven a few cars with celica 5 speeds and the clutch pedals seem great compared to the old aussie 4 speed bear trap.

Reddo... the crippled pensioner

Hi Reddo,
sorry, mine has always been heavy............ have a 1977 Corona with Celica 5 sp and it's a dream compared to the EK.

Don't know if you can do anything by changing the engineering to get a lighter clutch - I haven't been inside and taken a peek at what components are involved with fitting a Celica 5sp to a red/grey............ I would expect there to be some intermediary slave cylinder/bracket arrangement...............?
My FJ has the Hadfield kit - bellhousing/slave cyl bracket/ clutch/ throw-out lever but it isn't mobile - nor are any of the controls in the vehicle - it is all still as fitted in 1982 then the bloke met the woman...........

My brother in law collapsed a number of discs in his back many, many years ago when he was driving a AACO 180 tipper for a living...........
He fitted a servo booster to the clutch to relieve the effort - don't know if this is feasible............. but something to consider if you must have a manual.

Rock and a hard place I'm afraid, Reddo..............

I did have issue many years back after changing a slave cylinder - the conditions were an extremely heavy clutch with a slow release - it was found to be a twist in the flexible hydraulic hose - once found and rectified, has been the same old heavy clutch ever since - just learned to have one thigh muscle stronger than the other - don't know if I walk with a limp as a result though?

One word of warning before changing slave cylinder sizes - the hydraulic ratio will alter with different sized slave cylinder setups - but at a price - you'll get lighter effort, but less throw.............. or vice versa - your call......
You may also encounter difficulties if you alter the leverage - making it lighter will give you less travel - first/second gear is a difficult change in mine when it's cold - think that is pretty standard for the Aus - I know I can get a slinger fitted to second gear - will look at that next time it's out.

You may also find (as I have) that by altering the alignment angle of the slave cylinder to throw-out lever, the cylinder may wear lop-sided - I had to correct mine and replace the slave cylinder.
- PBR clutch slave cylinder – part # P4519 – Burson’s 53.79
- slave cylinder push-rod and nut - $20.65 - Rare's
- these were done in March 2005.

You mention you have had multiple experiences with these in different vehicles , I would expect what you have come to find "normal" is probably as good as it's going to be - unless someone comes up with an answer that I'll consider for mine................

frats,
Rosco

i don't think you have alot of options here mate.
you could use a small booster or go auto.
seeing your already running hydrolic to modify this you'd need a larger swing on the clutch pedal with a smaller diameter master cylender or larger diameter slave.
sorry mate but all i can say is good luck
tom

G'day Reddo,

I can't think of a solution at the moment but I'll give you a call on the telling bone tomorrow ( saturday ).

In the meantime, maybe a call to Terry Bebbington at Bebco ( numbers in the services and suppliers section here ) and see if he can offer a solution.

Talk soon,

Terry.

Had another thought.

Give Carters Brake and Clutch Service at East Maitland a call ( ph 4933 3960 ) as I found them very helpfull when making enquiries about having my grey motor clutch assembly reconditioned.

Hey Reddo,

A friend of mine had the same problem so he fitted a VH44 booster to it. Problem solved, clutch is now as light as a feather.

I have seen a factory power assisted clutch on a 60 series landcruiser before.

cheers Rob

the newer patrols also use them

Hi guys.

Yep. pretty much standard replys.
I replaced the slave on the FC panno the other week. the push rod came out at an odd angle. when i pulled the cylinder apart it was score badly on one side.
Fortunately the one on the HR ute is fairly square on to the countersunk hole in the throw out fork.
I apppreciate what has been said about losing the amont of movement orf the throw out fork if i try to mount the slave cyl further out on the side of the box. would probably end up adjusting the slave push rod up too much and put constant pressure on the thrust bearing and soon after stuffing it as well.

Just stuggle to understand why a toyota 5 speed to red or grey six seems to have an easier clutch to live with. Ok the celica box uses a celica clutch plate but it is still using the same pressure plate as a OZ 4 spd????

All to do with weights , fulcrums and leverage points .

The egyptians lifted FKN big blocks up to the top of the pyrimids. Why cant i save my wobbly old knee from caving in to an old holden clutch.

Having said all that . I drove to campbelltown and back today from Newcastle to pick up a pair of Bucket seats . The knee survived enough to carry me back and forward to the fridge for beer ten times tonight... hmmm perhaps beer is the answer??? .. ummm i guess we already knew that.

Reddo

Beer is definately the answer - now , what was the question ???

MMMM beer. The answer is harden the f#*k up you could fit an auto but you could also sit down to go to the toilet I had an early model patrol with a 308 and the standard Nissan 3 speed box that was a heavy clutch my left leg was so big I used to walk in circules on second thoughts disregard my previous drunken comments and an auto sounds good

Hiya craig

Yup.. i could harden the F#ck up.
But at 54 i have done all the "hardening" i need to do. my knees are on the downhill trail now.
As i said in the original post . i have been spat off too many dirt ( short circuit speedway) bikes and my left knee looks like a bowl of porridge.
just lookin for a soft option so i can keep on enjoying old holdens..

Auto is not and option mate., fine for mummsy to drive to woolies in but dont cut the mustard when ya start towing vintage caravans that weigh 750+ kgs.

early nissan?? had a 1976 ( three wiper blade jobby) G60 3 speeder soft top for 3 years...Dinosaur but..... indistructable.

Reddo

Sorry mate was only ment as a poor atempt at humour mine was a 76 as well definetly indistructable 308 and a CIG loker in the rear unstoppable but a dog on the street all the chassie rust made it flex great off road though

hey reddo -

ya really cant go past an auto for towing your old van - things have got better since the 1960's ya know.

why do ya think the really fast drag cars are autos these days !

moi.

oldgmh wrote:hey reddo -

ya really cant go past an auto for towing your old van - things have got better since the 1960's ya know.

why do ya think the really fast drag cars are autos these days !

moi.

it's cause the soft co#@s that race today don't know how to change gears

Yo

No wuckers craig..

Autos.
I towed an old cavan to Morgan S.A in 2006 with a 1986 Turbo diesel auto landcruiser. Didnt even know i had the van on the back. heaps of grunt and the auto worked well....... until i headed from wentworth up to Broken Hill.
100s of Ks of flat road towing the van into a nor wester.
The toyota had an auto oil cooler out front but the temp built up and the over temp light come on 100k out of Broken hill. By that stage it was too late. The tranny fluid smelt like vinegar and the box was slipping .
Bloke at the garage said because the box was under constant load on a flat road .. with a headwind it graddually increased the temp of the oil until it cooked itself.

I have towed the van all over the east coast of OZ and had no trouble from the auto in the past. Bloke said that it isnt a problem in hilly country because the box gets a chance to cool off/ recover heading down the other side of the hill where the box does virtually nothing.

Autos are great on drag cars as you can crank them up so they give a quick, positive change. Also good for your average everyday driving as well. No stiff knees from shoving heavy clutches in and out all day. But hang a load off the back of your car for a long period of towing and your average auto will need a really good cooler out front and a rest every now and again.

Meanwhile ... i have a celica 5 speed steel box with delo holden red bellhousing, modified tailshaft, rear gearbox mount ....all just sitting in the corner of the shed. Might phsyc myself up and do a converstion from 4 to 5 speed. Could solve the stiff knees problem and also save a few bucks on fuel with that 5th gear/overdrive.

Reddo