Rear spring hanger position

[eKay]

Hi Folks,

I was recently reading through a thread that briefly mentioned that the rear leaf spring shackle on FB/EKs can sometimes be positioned wrong and actually flipped upside down. It was established that the correct position for the shackle should be flipped inwards and upwards for want of a better description. I went and checked mine and sure enough, by the description it was in the wrong position - outwards. There was mention that if in the wrong position that there could be extra stress on mounting points and someone had experienced years ago, hitting a large bump and having one shackle flip into the correct position, leaving a bit of a lop sided vehicle.

There was also some discussion back and forth and some folk had different thoughts. I consulted my workshop manual (Gregory's) and was made none the wiser, with no reference to FB/EK shackle position.

I set about flipping mine into what the consensus suggests is the correct position and they flipped over easy enough, however, a couple of things were noted and I was hoping that the collective mind here could let me know if what I have done is correct.

Firstly, here is a pic of how my shackles were before I started:

Shackle down.JPG (79.18 KiB) Viewed 3408 times

.

I proceeded to flip the shackle and the second leaf caught underneath the shackle as pictured. i'm not a terribly bright spark, but I did figure this was wrong.

First flip shackle.JPG (80.66 KiB) Viewed 3408 times

So after a lot of swearing, jacking, pulling and banging - not necessarily in that order - I managed to get the second leaf inside the shackle.;

Final shackle.JPG (80.57 KiB) Viewed 3408 times

So, my queries are: Does the collective mind on here agree that this is the correct position for the rear hanger and the leaf springs?
AND, as things obviously moved slightly, do I need to loosen up the U bolts at the diff and let everything settle into its natural position? I only ask this as I checked my rear suspension after I did this and it is rigid, I mean it won't move, I can sit my 75kg body on the boot lip and bounce up and down and it is stiff... I didn't test it before I flipped it and I can't remember what it was like. I am unsure if by not loosening the U bolts whether it is bound up and under abnormal pressure.

Thanks folks for your input and hopefully the pics and question can help others. I couldn't find much on this subject.

Cheers

PS, sorry that the photos are sideways. I don't know why. On my PC they are correct orientation...

[Blacky]

Those springs look like the wrong ones to me - too long ????

[eKay]

Those springs look like the wrong ones to me - too long ????

Holy Cr4p I didn't need to hear that! I'll guess I will have to investigate that as another issue.

Thanks for your input..

So, just checking out my workshop manual and if they are too long, I'm guessing they are Eh - HR springs.
Is there any benefit of using these and should I flick the hangers back? I bought the car with the diff and rear suspension already in. It has a 10 bolt Salisbury diff from a HJ..
I'll have to drag out the original engineers cert to see if that brings some light to it..

Cheers

[Craig Allardyce]

Definitely the wrong springs. Too long as Blacky said. The second leaf is also too long compared to standard. With a fully loaded car and flat springs the shackle should not be in contact with the mount. Check page 4-27 of the Workshop manual if you have one figure 4C-5. Length between eye centres should be 48" (19in. front, 29in rear).

DSC01326.JPG (97.01 KiB) Viewed 3389 times

[eKay]

[quote="Craig Allardyce"]Definitely the wrong springs. Too long as Blacky said. The second leaf is also too long compared to standard. With a fully loaded car and flat springs the shackle should not be in contact with the mount. Check page 4-27 of the Workshop manual if you have one figure 4C-5. Length between eye centres should be 48" (19in. front, 29in rear).


Thanks Craig,
I guess someone thought putting in EH - HR springs was a good idea at some point. Thanks for adding your pic, it makes sense now. I had a hand drawn sketch that I couldnt make sense why the shackle was showing parallel to the ground. It didnt show the full picture but that clears it up.

Just when I thought I was almost ready to hit the road.

Cheers

[eKay]

So folks, I'm doing my head in here trying to work out the lengths of springs and how springs and diff fit together to the car.

According to my manual, the lengths of the springs for FE - EK are as follows;
(1) Spring length between the eyes centres: 48 inches (I presume that is flat)
(2 ) Centre bolt to rear eye centre: 29 Inches
(3) Centre bolt to front eye centre: 19 inches

For an EJ - HR the measurements are;
(1) 50 inches
(2) 30 inches
(3) 20 inches

This may seem like a stupid question, but I have never pulled apart leaf suspension before, so what I am struggling with is this: The overall length between the two models of springs is 2 inches, which would be about the length that I need to get my rear hanger into the correct position, however, what is the relationship between the "centre bolt" on the spring to the mounting of the diff. Does the diff sit on or bolt to the centre bolt on the springs?
Or do the U bolts just clamp around the diff and springs? My concern is if the diff mounts to or sits on the "centre bolt", does that mean my diff will sit an inch forward if I fit the correct EK springs.

Presuming the springs I have fitted now are EJ - HR, the centre bolt to front eye is 20 inches, but on the Ek springs, it is 19 inches, so if the diff attachment is in relation to the centre bolt, it is an inch forward SHOOT - does that makes sense to anyone other than my warped mind!

Apart from the HJ diff, I also have bigger disc brake calipers fitted and because of the width of the caliper, i have to use lowering blocks to clear it from the spring. Hoping none of this is why the longer springs were fitted in the first place but I can't see that being the issue.

Lowering blocks to lower and clear calipers

Lower blocks.JPG (76.3 KiB) Viewed 3378 times

I was hoping to hit the road next month, but this will slow me down. I should have remained ignorant and left it be

[Errol62]

Axle housing is located by centrebolt which is located mid axle by rubber insulators and axle mounting plate. As the front part of the spring is relatively flat you should be able to measure this relatively easily with the springs off and compare this to standard spec of 19". Maybe a bit harder with spring fitted. This will tell you how changing to stock will affect the position. The front mount being rigid and therefore this measurement will dictate axle position in the horizontal sense. How much gearbox output yoke clearance do you have? This may have been affected by non stock engine, transmission and/or tailshaft as well as diff type and spring length.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Craig Allardyce]

The diff should locate over the centre bolt of the spring. That said if the springs are different dimensions to the front eye there is a possibility that your lowering block may have an offset locating recess or dowel in order to keep the axle/wheel central in the arch.

[eKay]

Thanks gents,

I was really hoping someone was going to give me the 'easy answer' but I knew deep down there wasn't one. Looks like the only real answer is to pull it all apart, inspect and measure etc. One day I will drive this car! Just part of the ongoing saga of this poor beast.

Thanks for your input thus far gents...

[Trev]

Easy answer for me would be to get some stock fb ek springs.
Don't change the location of the hangers.

Sent from my D5303 using Tapatalk

[Errol62]

May need to adjust tailshaft length as well


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[eKay]

May need to adjust tailshaft length as well

Yay!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Blacky]

May need to adjust tailshaft length as well


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Provided your wheels are correctly centred in the guard opening now you should be right , just need to get them back to where they are now .

[eKay]

May need to adjust tailshaft length as well


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Provided your wheels are correctly centred in the guard opening now you should be right , just need to get them back to where they are now .

Are you withholding information Mr Blacky, that seems like half an answer Is there a trick to get it back to where it is now if the spring measurements are different?

This is doing my head in trying to calculate where the diff will sit!

The wheels "'appear" to be centred presently, but if the centre bolt to front eye is one inch shorter than the current springs, logic would suggest the diff will sit one inch further forward, which there is enough room for that to happen, BUT!! I presume I would need a maths guru because the measurements are flat (presumably) and the bend in the springs and the fact the shackle can swivel at the rear would throw any logic of just straight line measurements out the window, wouldn't it?

This car was originally modified and engineered in 2000 and I would have to guess these were the springs they used because the tail shaft fits OR can uni joints and tail shafts be manipulated to take up around one inch of slack? I'm getting close to rolling a hand grenade under it again, I've come close before!

Thanks for everyone's input...

Wheel.JPG (76.81 KiB) Viewed 3344 times

And what hope do I have if I can't even get photos to sit in the correct orientation. ALL my photos are up the right way on my PC, I even flipped this one upside down and it still comes out upside down...

[Blacky]

Mate i would get underneath it and remove the U bolts from one side , jack the diff up and see if it is sitting centrally on the centre bolt. The previous owner/installer of this diff and springs may have just drilled a hole 1"offset in the lowering block - a simple way to move the diff forward or backward as the case may be. You may find you can replace with stock springs and simply bolt it all straight back together and if you cant - just drill the hole offset yourself Mark with a plumb bob or a 600mm square onto the floor where your wheels are now then swap the springs and get them in the same spot = no tailshaft mods required