Grey Motor Timing

Sigs · Post by **Sigs** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 7:27 am

Hi all,
Im trying to get the timing right in my ek, grey motor, all original etc.

The timing dot is appearing when i connect to the 2nd spark plug, not the 1st, any ideas?

Regards,
Sigs

Sigs · Post by **Sigs** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:37 pm

Just to add some more info, I have to fully advance the timing (dizzy as far anti clockwise) to make the dot appear, otherwise it can't be seen at all. It appears in the top part of the viewing hole on the flywheel cover.
I don't think the motor has been pulled apart so can't imagine the flywheel being put back in the wrong place.
mmmm....

Sammy · Post by **Sammy** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 3:41 pm

if its anything like a 202 then the timing mark is most probably in the wrong spot (outer balancer ring slips)

my suggestion is to advance the timing as far as you can till it starts to ping, then back it off till it stops pinging then go another 1-2 degrees, that will get it pretty close to optimal.

fb cruzn · Post by **fb cruzn** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 5:19 pm

id be lineing the ''ball''/timing mark to the pointer and see where the rotor button points

it should be pointing towards the mark in the distributor body.

hard to explain without pics

grab a gregorys and have a squizz

westy

ps. make sure its on the right stroke or she'll be out 180 degrese out

gordon · Post by **gordon** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:07 pm

Sigs, if the points have the correct gap, you will have to pull up the distributor, shift it one tooth clockwise then hold it down and turn the engine so it drops into thoil pump drive. Or open up the points so the marks are there ( which is probably what those before you did )Wonder it goes at all with the timing that far out!

Sigs · Post by **Sigs** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:05 pm

I have turned the motor to the top of cyl 1 compression stroke and the rotor is pointing in the direction of No1 so its firing in the right place. I guess the flywheel has somehow been moved out of the orignial place.
I wasn't sure if this was possible, has anyone seen it on a 138 grey?

gordon · Post by **gordon** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 9:56 pm

No, the flywheel has offset dowel pegs so you cant do that

Lucy Blue · Post by **Lucy Blue** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:35 pm

The distributor is out by one tooth a very easy thing to do.

The rotor arm can be pointing in the “right” direction but it has to be spot on.

Many people put the rotor arm on the mark on the distributor housing and then put it back in but as the gears are helical the final position of the rotor will not be on the mark when it is installed.

You turn the rotor clockwise past the mark then as you install the distributor the rotor and the mark on the distributor housing will line up.

Don’t forget to disconnect the vacuum advance and plug the pipe when setting the timing

PM me if you want to have a look at how it’s done as I intend putting another cam in my car on Friday15th June so its all got to go back in I won’t charge you for watching. I am in Sydney

It’s really so easy you will wonder why it was such a problem before

Sigs · Post by **Sigs** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 7:04 pm

Thanks for your responses so far.

I have the timing set so it runs as best as it can, which isnt bad. It does lack significant power up hills in comparison to my ute.

So, from your responses looks like the dizy needs shifting. I am hesitant to do this but willing to give it a go.

So just confirming, the timing dot appears when i hook up to the 2nd cylinder. The rotor points in the right direction for the first cylinder to fire. The car is running and I have been driving it, although it lacks power.

So, for it to run better I need to move the dizzy one tooth?

Lucy Blue, thanks for the offer but Looks like Im a bit late. I will give it a go myself if you think it will help. I have a manual which shows the process.

Sigs · Post by **Sigs** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 2:52 pm

Hi all,
I have just spent the last few hours pulling the distributor out of my Ek Wagon, checking the cylinder stroke of the 1st cylinder against the timing dot, TDC etc.

I have come to the conclusion that the flywheel has moved or been moved at some stage. Can anyone confirm this is possible or am I going insane.

The reason I have come to this conclusion is that when the timing dot is in line with the marker on the flywheel cover, the 1st cylinder is halfway through its power stroke. The rotor is pointing in the vicinity of the 5th cylinder.

In the manual it gives a measure of the timing dot being present when the 1st cylinder is on its compression stroke. At this point the points should be about to open with the rotor arm pointing at the 1st cylinder.

When the first cylinder is towards the top of its compression stroke the rotor arm is pointing at the 1st cylinder, and the points are about to open. All good, except the timing dot is somewhere about a quarter way round the flywheel.

Now the car is running reasonbly well, just lacking power up hills. Is this normal and has the flywheel moved, and should I be looking elsewhere to improve the power issue, or is the dizzy in the wrong spot? It just doesnt seem right to put in in where the dot is showing as by this time the 1st cylinder is halfway through the power stroke.

Thanks for your comments, I know this is probably fairly basic compared to what is going on around the traps, but Im starting with the basics and working my way up. (Imagine what Ill be like putting a v6 in the ute

)

smooth · Post by **smooth** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 2:59 pm

Hmm, just a thought. Some flywheels have more than one mark. Have you checked that the mark you are using is the correct one?

Regards, Smooth

EK283 · Post by **EK283** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 6:51 pm

Sigs,
The easiest way I found to get a car running when you have no idea where the timing marks are as follows.
1/ Identify compression stroke via the valve rockers (both valves closed and pressure from the cylinder). I normally block the spark plug hole with my thumb and crank the engine till I feel it compress. You can also look into the plug hole and watch until the piston comes to the top and stops moving upward.
2/ Make sure the distributor rotor button is pointing toward number 1 lead at this stage adjust if its not.
3/ With the ignition switched on twist the distributor against the rotation of the rotor until you hear or see a spark jump across the points.
Move it back and forth until you do get the spark. Tighten dissy in this position.
4/ You should be able to start the car at this point. I then road test and advance the dissy until it starts to ping. When it pings it is to far advanced and I back of the timimg until it stops pinging. You should now have the timing pretty much spot on.
Fuels and engine condition dictate this pinging. It is unwise to drive your car when pinging for long distances as engine damage may result.

Because the cars are so old it is usually impossible to tell what has been done to an engine so relying on timing marks can sometime drive you crazy!
Hope this helps

Regards Greg

Sigs · Post by **Sigs** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 7:10 pm

Smooth, I checked the flywheel, its definitley the right mark, immediatley before the UC mark which defines top dead centre.

Greg, I understand what you are saying. This is pretty much what I did today and the car is running well. Still no timing dot though.

What I did in the end was measure the distance between the UC (Top Dead Centre) mark on the flywheel, and the timing dot, and then replicate this on the flywheel at the point where the 1st cylinder actually reaches top dead centre on its compression stroke by shining a torch through the spark plug chamber and watching the cylinder reach that point, then marking it on the flywheel.

The car is running well so I'll leave it alone for now until I pull it apart for a reco.
thanks for your replies

fb cruzn · Post by **fb cruzn** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 4:49 pm

by the sounds of it the dowel in the crank/flywheel has proberly been removed and the flywheel was put on wrong

if thats the case just do the timing by ear as greg described

as for power, it is only a grey, dont expect too much

westy

gordon · Post by **gordon** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:05 am

Open up the points gap, the correct marks may come into view,and car will go much better!