fbekholden.com

Looks like a Smith's I saw long time ago

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Errol62 wrote:Looks like a Smith's I saw long time ago

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Yep - had to come from merry old england as only do made to order now apparently - 4 months


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This Clutch has beaten me - had the slave re-sleaved and the master cleaned and resembled - tried to bleed it multiple ways including putting fluid in while assembling master - just can't get it to pressure up - no leaks at any of the joints- both peddle and slave adjustments are good - have no idea what to do now - booked for dyno Wednesday - I'll have to call them to see if they are prepared to muck around with it there and put it on a flat bed to get it there.
Brakes bled pretty well but for the life of me the clutch just wont pressure up - can only think the master is worn out but it looks like it has a sleeve in it so just dont get it.
Might grab a rares new one Monday and see if that makes any difference - so frustrating.

You say , "it won't pressure up" - does fluid come out of the bleed nipple at the slave cylinder when you try to bleed the clutch? And it shouldn't be just a few drops, there should be about 20 ml per stroke . . . If that's the case, then a blockage in the plumbing is not the problem.

When you bleed the fluid through, how does the fluid appear when it comes out of the bleeder - mainly air, or big bubbles, or lots of tiny bubbles? Mainly air means that the master cylinder isn't filling with fluid. Big bubbles mean much the same thing, or a massive leak of air on the return stroke. Lots of tiny bubbles usually mean that there's a small leak past the seals on the return stroke.

Have to ask this: which way are the seals pointing in the master cylinder - flared end forwards? And similarly with the slave cylinder - flared end of seal pointing into the cylinder? Can you confirm that neither check valve nor grommet is at the front of the master cylinder? Is the piston spring pointing the right way: small, solid end against the primary cup, and large, open-coil end at the front of the master cylinder?

If you have an old brake hose that still flows, screw the "male" end of the hose into the master cylinder outlet, and loop the hose around so the "female" end is just inside the reservoir. You'll now be able to test the operation of the master cylinder: after a few full strokes of the pedal, you'll see a steady, bubble-free discharge of fluid back into the reservoir. If that's not happening, re-check the pedal free travel. Back the pushrod off a couple of turns if you're unsure. If the free travel is OK, but still no fluid comes out, check that all the internals of the master cylinder are assembled correctly.

If by now you've made the master cylinder operate correctly, tape over the vent hole in the master cylinder cap, put the cap on firmly. Undo the slave cylinder's bleed nipple, and check that you can blow through the pipe and slave cylinder. If OK, then reconnect the pipe to the master cylinder (lots of rags to protect your paint), and bleed the clutch. Don't forget to take the tape off the vent hole when you've finished.

Sometimes just filling the master cylinder reservoir with fluid and leaving the system to sit for a day or so works a treat.

Rob

Yeah i put only whats in the book back in - seals facing forward etc - i poured some fluid into cylinder and filled up tin at install and made sure there was fluid dripping from outlet - pressures up for a few pumps and just as you think your getting a good flow from bleeder it loses pressure at the peddle - its like its not drawing fluid into the master


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Bleed nipple should be at highest point on slave cylinder if installed correctly. Hard to get wrong.


FB ute fixer upper, EK van on rotisserie

Yeah thats the frustrating part - such a simple system and Ive done everything as instructed and even had a mechanic mate talk me through it but no joy - time for a wine - worry about it monday


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I'm hoping that the reservoir's full of fluid . . .
So if the cylinder's not filling with fluid, there are a couple of things you can try -

1. Undo the master cylinder to firewall bolts about 3 mm, and pull the master cylinder out from the firewall. This has the same effect as backing the pushrod off. Push the clutch pedal down a couple of inches by hand. The "feel" of the pedal should be completely different, and you should hear and feel a slight "clunk" as the pushrod hits the back of the piston and the piston moves.

As you push the pedal down past the point where the piston begins to move, you should hear the master cylinder "burp" a little. It'll be just a few little bubbles in the fluid, and is the sign that the compensating port is open. If this happens, the system should bleed. If not -

2. Do the "brake hose" trick I outlined earlier. If you don't have a spare brake hose to use, maybe you have a short length of pipe with the flare nut, and a foot or so of clear tubing. If not, then -

3. Take the master cylinder off. Get a jar and a no. 3 Phillips screwdriver. Clamp the master cylinder gently in a vice, put the business end of the screwdriver into the piston, seal the outlet off with your finger, hold the jar to catch the fluid, and pump the screwdriver with your free hand ("which one is that?", I hear you ask). The cylinder must now bleed. It'll only take a few strokes. Keep the reservoir topped up. In the event of success, keep your finger over the outlet, connect the (now full) master cylinder to the pipe, and start the mounting bolts. Gently push the cylinder home. If, as you do so, the cylinder appears to "load up" and resist, that's the piston moving: the pushrod adjustment's out of whack. Stop there and adjust the pushrod back. At this stage, too much pedal free travel is not enough. The system should now bleed.

When you are not bleeding the system, and push the clutch pedal down, how far does the end of the clutch fork move (if at all)? No movement at all indicates a blockage.

Rob

. . . and I just re-read your post.

"Loses pressure at the pedal."

Push the clutch pedal down, hold it down and have someone else watch the clutch fork. If the clutch fork moves out when the pedal goes down, and then slowly returns on its own with the pedal held at the floor, you have an internal leak in the master cylinder: fluid is leaking back past the primary piston cup.

Usually this happens on old master cylinders when the bore gets scored, or the primary cup's leading edge gets damaged (mineral oil, dirt, manufacturing defect . . .)

Rob

ardiesse wrote:. . . and I just re-read your post.

"Loses pressure at the pedal."

Push the clutch pedal down, hold it down and have someone else watch the clutch fork. If the clutch fork moves out when the pedal goes down, and then slowly returns on its own with the pedal held at the floor, you have an internal leak in the master cylinder: fluid is leaking back past the primary piston cup.

Usually this happens on old master cylinders when the bore gets scored, or the primary cup's leading edge gets damaged (mineral oil, dirt, manufacturing defect . . .)

Rob

No when the clutch activates it holds its position - no leaks


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That's a good sign.

Does the clutch disengage with the pedal depressed, or does it drag?

ardiesse wrote:That's a good sign.

Does the clutch disengage with the pedal depressed, or does it drag?

Havent got that far as it works innitially but then doesnt


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Couple a days!!


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I’m so dizzy one step down - oil leak was due to side plate so that sorted as well


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FJWALLY wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 12:34 pmI’m so dizzy

Nothing like some Vic Reaves for a Friday afternoon.

Looks good. Glad they left the leads long so they could be trimmed to suit - they look very neat.

Huffer? check.
Magneto? check.
Slave cylinder?

Time for some circle work
You're going round in circles all the tiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiime...

Cheers,
Harv