WA fb special

[mph]

When your working in the shed and an univited guest walks in and watches you working.

Sent from Cahawba , Alabama

[gpi]

Just trying to prove who is the shed king pin

[Blacky]

Wow, you got that stuff all the way to Alabama already ????

[mph]

Popped in the other night and seen blacky for a quick beer in the coolest bar shed going , quick drool over the red rattler and his innovative mods on it then to grab a hr front end from ekmart.
Spent some time yesterday cleaning off the hr mounts and outrigger, I tried a mini dremel grinder normal grinder and then found the recip saw did the best job.
Ive ordered drop spindles and now hunting for h-ktg or hr brakes. Dont want to change stud patterns or go wild on big upgrades.
I'll have to change the rear drum cylinders back to suit disk front. Aswell.

I had an idea and wondered looking at the pic of the ek and hr k frame what would happen if you un picked the chassis mounts from the k frames and put the ek mounts on the hr frame.

They are quite different in the frame shapes and noticed the hr k frames is wider each side , was the HD kingpin wider than the ek as well?
Finished the day off going for a cruise to mr pizza south Perth with Casey and the father inlaw in his 57. Pizza and a bag off beers.

Sent from Cahawba , Alabama

[Blacky]

I like your workboots - same as mine

Swapping the mounts effectively lowers the front of the car another 2 inches or so

[mph]

I like your workboots - same as mine

Swapping the mounts effectively lowers the front of the car another 2 inches or so

I knew the grinder was doing a good job when my feet were gaining spot burns

I wonder if the bump steer and steering box arms would have issues

Sent from Cahawba , Alabama

[Blacky]

it would definitely have an effect on the geometry if you were using a stock steering box

[CHOPPED]

good stuff clint
you know I have a sand blaster at the shop if you need mate
you have my mumber

[mph]

good stuff clint
you know I have a sand blaster at the shop if you need mate
you have my mumber

Hi mate,
That is most defiently on the list to have it blasted then powder coated at the end, ill hit you up when ready for the blasting thanks.




Its going to be a root around but maybe next break or one after im going to remove my bonnet, motor and k frame do a dummy fit of the bare hr front to the fb so i can fab the engine mounts and front out rigger,not sure if the fb / ek front out rigger can weld in the place of the hr one or if it needs different height or angle.
I have a bare red block with no crank,head or weight to it and spare eh sump to slip in and out when test fitting.
Bit more research i think rare spares sells hr rubber mounts to suit ek chassis,not sure about the 4 bolts length either yet.
Then re install my motor, fb k frame and bonnet have the fb back driving with least down time its my daily now days.
Then i can work on the hr front at my own leisure

[Errol62]

The ek snout happens to fit straight up rivet hole to rivet holes Clint. I vaguely recall reusing all the ek bolts, top and bottom plates, crush tubes and rubbers but it is a pretty vague memory being over 30 years ago. The rubbers don’t tend to wear out generally. If you have the hr bits on hand as well that could be handy just in case.

Luxury to have a bear block to dummy up. Drop a pair of head bolts in the rear holes as this is the interference point with the firewall to floor seam. Clearance between eh sump and draglink is another issue. The rest depends on trans choice. If it is crash box the mods are limited pretty much to fitting front mounts and dealing with clearance to the accelerator bar. You can use the semicircle cutout in the bottom of the radiator opening to line up the crank centreline to the grey motor position. Might need to fit a timing cover for this purpose.


FB ute fixer upper, EK van on rotisserie

[rosco]

[/quote]
Its going to be a root around but maybe next break or one after im going to remove my bonnet, motor and k frame do a dummy fit of the bare hr front to the fb so i can fab the engine mounts and front out rigger,not sure if the fb / ek front out rigger can weld in the place of the hr one or if it needs different height or angle.
Bit more research i think rare spares sells hr rubber mounts to suit ek chassis,not sure about the 4 bolts length either yet.
[/quote]

Hi mph,
you might like to follow where I'm at in my Rosco's EK 225 manual thread.... I had huge issues with fitting the HR (mine was HD, but the same) front end and motor...
The front end was modified by Rares back in 1982.. to a jig. They cut the original snout off and fitted a replacement that suited both FB/EK and EJ/EH.

The main trouble I had with fitting the front end was these heights.. and spacer tubes. It took me many years to get the sub-frame to sit on the cross-member properly - I had to modify four of the eight mounting blocks and then fit/measure/cut these spacer tubes until I got the correct length under compression torque.
By the time I finished this - the difference between what it was first like and the final result was very noticeable... there was some "ride" back in the car.... instead of the solid bolting down of the cross-member to sub-frame which resulted in every bump in the road being a jarring....

I don't know what other people on this forum have done when mounting a HR cross-member.. my suspicion is that they have not used these spacer tubes and did not adjust them to get the correct specs under compression..... maybe they did, but I don't believe I have read it in any of the threads I have seen...

As you are probably aware, the HR draglink is very thick.... I had sump rubbing issues with mine... I used the HD (thinner than an HR) draglink and yet it still rubbed on the sump during full right hand lock...

You could opt for the original ball socket draglink system of the FB/EK - which is a straight rod...

I don't know if this is true - but I am further told that a latter HK/T/G sump and oil-pick up will work if using the HR draglink where the "bend" of the draglink is towards the rear of the car..... the bulge of the sump fits between the draglink and the cross-member.... I have not tried this nor have I seen it done, but I have it on authority from someone I hold in high esteem that such is so....

I gave up with mine and removed the sump - then cut it and welded in my own plates... it no longer rubs on the draglink.

Lots of pix, if you need any references.

frats,
Rosco

[rosco]

Hi again, Clint -
Forgot to mention - engine clearances... as Clay states - it's a "tight" fit and the engine mount blocks on the cross-member need to be placed very accurately.

I can take some pix if you need them..
When Rares did this in 1982 - they used a "jig" to weld on the mounts.... with the motor in position, I can barely get my finger between the rear head bolt and the seam joint that Clay speaks of on the firewall... and even a smaller finger between the EH fan/water pump bolts and the radiator at the front... it really is that tight.

At this time, they were welding in smaller mount blocks - I believe much larger ones are used these days, and a different engine mount rubber assembly... I haven't taken a lot of notice - but I do know mine are the smaller "square" blocks... around 1 1/2" square

If it is of any help - the rear of the two mount blocks run pretty close to level with the vertical rear wall of the cross-member...
for an EH, they were mounted just a little bit forward of this - but for an early Holden, they are mounted back at the rear.

I ended up cutting into my upper radiator cross support and made a recess for the radiator in that.. then welded in a plate to fill the hole.
This allowed me to mount a HK/T/G six cylinder radiator with just enough clearance to remove the fan/pulley without need for removing the radiator.

Yes, it will all fit without these little extra modifications.... but it makes life a lot easier later on if they can be done now.

frats,
Rosco

[Errol62]

Shouldn’t you be talking him out of the red motor Rosco?

In my van I have massaged the firewall back about 30mm. The warmaride and horsehair still fits just.


FB ute fixer upper, EK van on rotisserie

[mph]

The ek snout happens to fit straight up rivet hole to rivet holes Clint. I vaguely recall reusing all the ek bolts, top and bottom plates, crush tubes and rubbers but it is a pretty vague memory being over 30 years ago. The rubbers don’t tend to wear out generally. If you have the hr bits on hand as well that could be handy just in case.

Luxury to have a bear block to dummy up. Drop a pair of head bolts in the rear holes as this is the interference point with the firewall to floor seam. Clearance between eh sump and draglink is another issue. The rest depends on trans choice. If it is crash box the mods are limited pretty much to fitting front mounts and dealing with clearance to the accelerator bar. You can use the semicircle cutout in the bottom of the radiator opening to line up the crank centreline to the grey motor position. Might need to fit a timing cover for this purpose.


FB ute fixer upper, EK van on rotisserie

The red motor was originally bolted to the std 3 speed box which is/was in the "factory" location and motor mounts made to that position
When it was converted to auto the motor mounts stayed in the same spot.
So i shouldnt have to move the motor back or forth when installing the hr frame just new engine mounts, hopefully .

[mph]

[/quote]

Hi mph,
you might like to follow where I'm at in my Rosco's EK 225 manual thread.... I had huge issues with fitting the HR (mine was HD, but the same) front end and motor...
The front end was modified by Rares back in 1982.. to a jig. They cut the original snout off and fitted a replacement that suited both FB/EK and EJ/EH.

The main trouble I had with fitting the front end was these heights.. and spacer tubes. It took me many years to get the sub-frame to sit on the cross-member properly - I had to modify four of the eight mounting blocks and then fit/measure/cut these spacer tubes until I got the correct length under compression torque.
By the time I finished this - the difference between what it was first like and the final result was very noticeable... there was some "ride" back in the car.... instead of the solid bolting down of the cross-member to sub-frame which resulted in every bump in the road being a jarring....

I don't know what other people on this forum have done when mounting a HR cross-member.. my suspicion is that they have not used these spacer tubes and did not adjust them to get the correct specs under compression..... maybe they did, but I don't believe I have read it in any of the threads I have seen...

As you are probably aware, the HR draglink is very thick.... I had sump rubbing issues with mine... I used the HD (thinner than an HR) draglink and yet it still rubbed on the sump during full right hand lock...

You could opt for the original ball socket draglink system of the FB/EK - which is a straight rod...

I don't know if this is true - but I am further told that a latter HK/T/G sump and oil-pick up will work if using the HR draglink where the "bend" of the draglink is towards the rear of the car..... the bulge of the sump fits between the draglink and the cross-member.... I have not tried this nor have I seen it done, but I have it on authority from someone I hold in high esteem that such is so....

I gave up with mine and removed the sump - then cut it and welded in my own plates... it no longer rubs on the draglink.

Lots of pix, if you need any references.

frats,
Rosco
[/quote]


Hi mate ,
Yes im following your story very closely and enjoying the tec and info a lot.

Im guessing these https://www.kingswoodcountry.com.au/buy ... ek-e/FEK4A will eliminate the rubber mounting issues you had back in the 80s and it will just be the bolts and space tubes im not sure of their purpose yet?.
I havent looked into yet if i can use my fb drag link arms or if they might be to short , i was not aware the hr ones are thicker , i only have my original pair of fb atm.
Maybe a case of lifting the motor slightly more with new mounts to give the sump a little more clearance between it and the drag rods.