fbekholden.com

Hi Cam,
ummmmmm............
If you have access to a panel beater - he will probably give you the best advice - far better than I can offer.
It never ever is a waste reading material........... there is always something to be gleaned from other people's experience and that's what I offer.........
Is your mate's father local? if so, I hope will "guide" you through the process....... is he far in distance from you - he may even drop over and take a peek................... that is going to be of much more use to you than I can offer, sitting here at my "box"...........

But for the record, as mentioned - I "hand" work all my panels - the only time I have ever taken "power" to them is to grind back any welding or "flap disk" some burrs on factory spot welds............... it's just the way I do it......

Others here will offer you much advice on using power tools and disks, wheels etc......... I can offer very little, but SAFETY.....................

You will get much pleasure and reward from your labours - but you are potentially at risk of causing yourself very much permanent harm..........enjoy or passion, but please read and consider the following...... everybody please read the following......
IMPORTANT ............. better than

SEX.......!

- if you aren't up to speed with working a thin metal panel - especially if it's riddled with holes and rust - you can do yourself some serious damage with the abrasive capabilities of these rotary machines - never, never, ever lay into something where the "run" of the machine leads into facing edge - it may break the disk, wheel, or flap and hurl it at you at a squillion miles an hour.
Another thing likely to happen is that it may "grab" and pull you or your clothing into the process - always work "off" whatever you are doing - that is have the disk, wheel, flap etc trail from your edge - the edge pointing away from you.......... make sense, I hope so............ I think you can appreciate the high spinning abrasive component is going to think "nothing" of taking your skin, bone, eyes or whatever when it can easily grind away metal...............

The lightest you will get away with this if something goes wrong - is that you will do a lot of damage to what you are working on.............
When ever you are working power tools in a new environment or application, try to let someone know (partner, neighbour etc) and warn them - if what you are doing makes a sudden loud noise or you yell and go quiet for a period, get them to check you are ok - or learn to do as most of us do when we stuff something up - yell out a few whatevers to let the neighbours know you are conscious................. that's a lateral way of excusing my profound language (but very rare) - they know how much effort I put into my bus and turn a blind "ear" to it when it seldom gets above "garage" level..............I have taken to informing them it's just my way of avoiding them making enquiry............. because it is so rare that I use profanities, it is more likely to get their attention............


ALSO YOU MUST WEAR EYE PROTECTION - FULL GOGGLE - not safety glasses - grit, paint and whatever WILL get under safety glasses and you're off to the eye specialist........... PLEASE DO THIS FOR ME, CAM - on EVERY OCCASION..................the type for whipper snippers etc is fine......

WORK GLOVES are also a MUST - not expensive - but if you ever wanted to die late in life with all fingers and you wish to continue working in panels.......... wear GLOVES when working with POWER TOOLS.........
I prefer the "rigger" type gloves - leather, but thin - I have so far "smelled" the leather burning before anything gets "through" to my skin.......
I block back using a very aggressive dri-lube paper - 40 or 80 grit........ keep it tightly wrapped over your pad and work cross-hatch - this is just me Cam, by that I mean work in one direction for a time, then across that by 90 degrees - I find this brings the surface down a lot quicker and is less inclined to gouge great scratches beyond where we want to go.

If you have a lot of filling to do, leave the coarse scratching there - don't try to smooth it down - these deep scratches will assist in the filler getting a "bond"...........

Try to beat out as much of any dents which you can - do go stupid at it, but just tap away - I'd like to write something of my experience here with hammers and dollies, but you and everyone else will shudder if I start........
Suffice it to say, I have found that allowing the hammer to "float" in my grip is less likely to cause more dents............ I try to work it out gently and don't keep banging at the one spot, but work around any dent - if it looks as if it is coming out, localise it a bit but still work around the edge.
It is very easy to create another "dent" within a dent if you just hammer the centre......... make any sense - it does to me, but I know what I mean, others may not follow...............
That's probably enough on that for now - in the words of Forrest Gump, I love that film, that's all I have to say about that for now................
There's another "novel" in this............ but not here........

Would you do me a favour and keep this post just to panelwork? - I am hoping to at some time compact and itemize it for the archive - I am also hoping others will jump on board this and offer us alternatives to what I put up.........

Finally, your question of starting........... again I would now point you towards your mate's father - try to get him on board - but just for advice - this will be your best financial prospect............... if he offers for nicks - jump at it........... but watch, and watch very closely................ I'm fairly confident he will do a great job, but I am a very suspicious person and have to know what is being done............ I have lost so much respect for tradespersons over the years I really should be grateful to them............. this is the main reason I have always tried to do all the work on my old bus myself..........................

I still believe you will enjoy more of your vehicle if you do the work yourself - I am confident you will appreciate what you have more if you put into it........... rather than "spend" on it.............


For starters, some blocking back pads - keep to the really firm ones to start wtih - of different sizes and thichnesses......... I fabricated a lot of mine from blocks of rubber - like old mudflaps etc............
For as long as manufacturers can "lure" people into believing products are the be all and end all of what is likely to be needed, they will always "showcase" and advertise these amazing "musts" - blocking back, can be as cheap as you can afford.................

MAKE ABSOLUTLEY SURE YOU PURCHASE A CAN OF WAX AND GREASE REMOVER!!!!!!!! - wipe down the panel PRIOR to doing any work on it.......
read the instructions.......... you don't want to let it dry on the panel prior to wiping it of ........ not so important now, but a good habit to get into.........


can you post your steering column question back in the General "sharing advice and experience" part of the forum, Cam.............
Many people will read all the articles there, but many will not follow this thread and you may loose valuable info...............


frats,
Rosco

ive just striped my car i used a shinano orbital air sander $195.00

i do recken sandblasting doors boot bonnet gaurds by a good sand blaster $500 for mine including gst and etchprimed so much faster and you find any rust for certain

i also used an electric makita square palm sander

door seal groves ect i got mini wirebrushes a few sizes that go in your drill similar to the ones for a grinder but they are only a couple inches diameter ,,from hardware shop

and i use a 9hp honda powerd compressor that has a italian compressor twin cylinder

and most of all if you spend more you get reliable quallity DONT WASTE YOUR GOOD MONEY ON CHINEESEY SHIT!!!!!!!!! its garbage if you see made in china ,, run run run ,,,, you at least want jap or euro stuff ,,,supa cheap stuff is good if you aint gonna use it..

thats my exsperiance and oppion,,,,

chinese food however is yuuuummmmmmyyyyyyyyy

see im not racest

havent been to the races in years

Rosco does an opened can of paint have a long shelf life, the reason I ask is I mixed some primer 50/50 thinners & it coagulated (like week old milk) so had to tip it out.

Love the "novel" you are writing for Cam, I read it with a lot of interest.

Hi B U,
I am hesitant to state that I won't be post much of a reply here....... we'll see.

I have never had acrylic go "off" on me - but I do a little "trick" when I think of it........... I turn the can upside down and let it rest until the next time I walk past it in a few days, then again and again ....... don't need to shake, rattle or roll .... just invert it each time.......

To study what happens with paint in "storage" - I think the most appropriate way to study it is in jars - I wouldn't suggest storing it long time as UV light will ultimately change the density and hue.......

I have had paint in jars for in excess of five years - it settles in the bottom a bit and the thinners can be seen floating on top..........
You will also see that the "filler" or "base" of most acrylic paint is a whitish substance and this tends to sit on the very bottom - it can get quite difficult to "lift" - if you want to use this paint to "touch-up" you must get it all in suspension again, or it will be different from the original mix............. these are the main reasons we are told to "stir" paint - to get all of it up and mixed again..........

My question back to you B U is along the lines of what thinners you used.......

I have had so called "acrylic" paints sold to me but in fact it was nitro-cellulose... mixing an acrylic thinner into that and leaving it may have caused coagulation - I have a tendency to purchase appropriate brand thinners for each "brand" of paint...........

If I have used the product before and "moved" around a bit with different thinners under changing conditions, I don't hesitate to use my "preferred" brand of thinner........... if it is something "new" and untested - using the paint for the purpose intended - I stick to the "brand" thinner.......

If I have any left over and have finished the project - I like to "play" a bit and see if anything "works" better.......... often it doesn't.....but sometimes I find something to make notes on..............

Was the tin you had it stored in sealed properly - I know this is a stupid question - of course it was.......... I like to make absolutely sure the lip recess in cans of paint is absolutely clean and dry - so too, the lid flange..... it's just me....... I must be creating a "monster of myself" in people's minds who are (trying to) follow this..............?

I'd be more concerned of the paint mix..........

I'm pretty confident your product was acrylic with acrylic thinners B U.?

As mentioned previously, I have zilch experience with 2 pack.

I have had issues with enamel - it tends to "skin" over and that skin gets deeper until it's all rock hard..........
My paint supplier advised me to keep enamel in cans small enough so that they were at least 2/3rds full - the fuller, the better.
Another little "trick" I have learned with enamel is not to put the lid back on and shake the can - keep it upright at all times.
Try to keep the lid clean of paint. I also pour in just a little turps into the can flangeway to create a liquid seal.
I also carefully ease in about 5 mm (not ml) of turps or enamel thinner so that it sits "on top" of the paint - this seems to delay the skinning issue....... but not forever......... once exposed to air for any "time", enamel paint will go "off".........

Hmmmmm. coagulating - still think it is something to do with chemical curing - not a "natural" air dry cure.......... others may have more - I am not a chemist........ but interested.......

hope some of these two lines have helped B U.?

frats,
Rosco

Hey.....Sorry Rosco.......all other questions will be posted else where!!! Hope i didnt step on toes!!!

What are the thoughts on paint strippers??? Or just stick to rubbing back with the aid of hand or machine???

Sand Blasting sounds like a good option for the guards and such........but i guess thats a decision only i can make...well actually the wallet!!!

Unfortunately i dont know my brothers mates dad that well, but i do know my brothers mate well, and he has had a lot of experience!!! And he does good work!!! So it will be a plus, but Rosco all your advice has been priceless, so please keep feeding it

I certainly will be using protective glasses, as i have seen the effects of not wearing them first hand!!! Also leather gloves are a god send, and like you, dont like wearing thick ones!!! Loose the feel for what your doing, well thats what i think anyway.

If i dont get the bonnet sand blasted, what would be the best way of ridding the paint on the underside, as it is a colour that i dont want??? There isnt visible rust at all on the bonnet!!!

Cheers Rosco
What happened was I mixed up some acrylic primer, but was still a little thick so added more acrylic thinners to it, same thinners I have always used with no problems, tried some spray putty with same result, thinners seem to mix ok in mixing bowl but seem all go to to custard when added thinners to paint/putty in the gun cup ???????
Whilst still on the topic of paint - is it a must to have the small filter in the gravity fed gun cup, considering you're filtering/straining the liquid when filling the cup

Hi again BU and Cam,
Cam, I have to go to bed - but will give you an answer tomorrow - for now this will do........

If you go ahead and use a stripper - you MUST remove all paint - there will be issues with how deep the stripper goes and it will probably release the bond of the primer from whatever underneath................

As for the underside of your bonnet - again we must discuss the "condition" the existing paint is in - generally, undersides of bonnets are usually pretty good............ the heat of the engine tends to make the paint harden early in life - I would expect though, that around the master cylinders is damaged to some extent - also, the older type batteries had vents on the top of the fillers - when charging, the acid could in extreme cases hit the bonnet and do some damage there, we have a bit of an opportunity here Cam, this may very well be your "first" opportunity to have a go at something - the panel should be good, and relatively easy to spray once off the vehicle - if you stuff it up - and you shouldn't, you'll get a bit more "hands on" with blocking back............

I was only concerned others would not read your question on columns - that's why I suggested putting it back in the general tech area......

frats,
Rosco

Hi B U.
if you have had problems with the same thinners, I'd donate it to the brush and gun cleaning tin.................... I gave it a bit of thought whilst working under my bus today and haven't come up with a solution (no pun intended) yet............... I am still leaning towards something about the thinners...........
As mentioned, I have had both mixed acrylic primer and colour coat on the "shelf" for long periods of time without this happening............what brand of paint and thinners are you using..............?

As for your filter on the gravity gun - I would recommend using it.
Especially if you are having coag problems............... better to block your gun up than to splat a great wet plug of it out onto a panel you have spent "your life" preparing............. just my thoughts............

I am of the opinion filters make little difference to performance of gravity guns.......... they can cause a bit of an issue with suction types - I haven't had problems yet........ except for my first little suction touch up - had a leak at the top of the pipe and it caused all sorts of "grief" before I found the "cause"..................

Still working on your coag problem............. something is there - but from around 1995 ........ think it was a chemical thing, just can't put the colour of the paint into the picture - yet. When I can "see" it, I will remember......

have to go to bed - have an 03:00 tomorrow.............

frats,
Rosco

yeah I'm leaning to the thinners as well, the gun is second hand & as yet I haven't used it, so may be something the previous owner put thru it & the cup not cleaned out properly, although I have run thinners thru the gun - hhmm nup - was only when I added the extra thinners, I have 2 tins of thinners so one may be rs, but would've thought paint would go off before thinners though.

Hi again B U.
Thinners will go off............ it sort of has a "non sharp" smell when it's spent.
Good thinners will cause you to "shrink" your nose ...........
For the cost of thinners vs paint - don't risk it.
I have paint on my shelf which has been moved from two houses we have lived in - last time I opened it for some touch ups - it was fine - but make absolutely sure you thoroughly stir it up prior to taking some out........

Something is still nagging me about coag - have seen it in the bowl of my gun when cleaning it and can't remember what I found caused it.
"person who doesn't learn from his mistakes is committed to repeating them" guess I'll do it again one day - tell you what caused it then..................

frats,
Rosco

Ok so just out of interests sake, whats the process with 2pac. Is it basically the same....???

Just interested to compare the difference!!!

Hi Cam.
body wise I believe it to be identical.

As for the primer and colour/clear coats and process - we'll both be waiting for some kind soul to commit..............

I have been advised that the nozzle/tip size are smaller for 2K

frats,
Rosco

Rosco it was a tin of thinners that was rs - tried the old sniff test but both smelt same to me but when I added to the paint it just went to custard the other tin was ok, not sure it will be ok for gun clean but be ok for external cleaning etc.

Thanks for the update B.U,
very happy to hear you have found the cause.
Good to share this with others who may come across the same problem sometime down the track.......

frats,
Rosco

I'd dispose of that thinners just in case it gets confused.......

Hi Cam & Nic,
Cam, can you tell us where you're at with your paint refurb?

Nic, I too - this very day, have had primer go "custard" - amazing! it came back to me = the same thing which happened years ago -
Primer and thinners were Moto-Spray - went to my supplier and picked up 4 litres fresh thinners - good as new - have nearly 4 litres of unwanted solvent for anyone who is stripping paint........

Cam, at my local Bunnings today I found them selling a gravity touch up gun for $59 - I think you can recall my mentioning how much I love my Hi-Tech 0.8 mm touch up gun - this one has a 1.0 mm tip and needle - I am in the process of spraying inside the luggage compartment in acrylic black - will give a report on how I find the new toy tomorrow night..................
They are marketing them under the Trade-Air brand - subsidiary of Spear and Jackson.......... have to look closely, but labeled discreetly as "made in China"............ does not have the same study feel as my Hi-Tech, but the working parts seem good on inspection.........
It has a stainless needle/tip and also paint bowl - I have made two modifications which should lengthen the service life - report tomorrow.

frats,
Rosco