Hello All

rosco · Post by **rosco** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 9:34 am

Hi Cam,
long time since we chatted..................
You may have read recently (this past week!) that the yamba nats have revealed a number of people suffering generator related issues.
Sam Crupi suffered from worn gen brushes, Richard (Esme) a spent armature and MiniFBvan two broken generator brackets - seems you might be joining the folly?

I run an alternator in mine - but I have a red - I'm sure you could easily modify or fabricate a bracket to convert your gen system to an alternator - but as you point out, you have not decided on which category you want to be in.

Electrically, it is very easy to convert - if you get an alternator with an inbuilt regulator - it's just a matter of removing a few wires and fitting three additional ones - one from the output of the alternator direct to the positive battery terminal (use a lead more capable than the output of the alternator eg 50 amp wire for 40 amp alternator etc).
Another thin lead from the IND terminal of the alternator goes direct to the generator warning light (brown wire) and make sure you fit a decent one from the negative battery terminal to the body - there is a black lead which connects your existing voltage regulator to the generator (and engine) and provides additional "earth" to the body - your braided fuel hose from the fuel line to the fuel pump also makes this earth connection - believer it or not (Ripley)

The existing wiring between the generator and regulator is removed - the red double poled (crimped together and held in place at the voltage regulator by screw) ) lead is the main feed into your car - it ends up at the bus bar of the lighting switch which becomes the pivotal point of all the electrical supply to your vehicle.
Your "new" wiring will need to supply a reasonable lead from the starter motor solenoid and connect this to the double red lead - I would suggest making this connection mechanical (screw, washers and nuts) and encase it in a small (matchbox sized) waterproof box - I would further suggest to fit this box securely to the firwall (probably by one of the holes used by your former voltage regulator......)

Go to the "nth" degree of making this connection secure, insulated and electrically perfect - if it fails, your electrical system is dead......................not much fun if you are on a mountainous road in the rain at night and just in the process of overtaking something..............

Personally, I would retain the original - I have done the modified bit and quite frankly am over it - yes a lot of user friendly stuff, but the aura of original is long gone - I feel your ute still has it.................

As to the gen light and headlamps when idling - normal, from what I remember - there have been articles posted in recent years which decree that headlamps which dim unless the engine speed it increased are a sign of impending battery failure - this is probably true for modern vehicles (post 1965) which are alternator fitted.

Generator systems have a minimal output at idle (basically enough to keep the coil and limited other small auxiliaries going) - it's the nature of the beast - I have posted something recently somewhere in electrical section stating the maximum output of a generator -and voltage regulator - it was something to do with headlamps................

At idle, it is normal for the gen light to flicker or even glow dimly - depending on how slow your idle speed is.
Below sufficient output from the generator,your headlamps will be basically supplied by the battery - and until the generator output picks up to a point above that voltage, the headlamps will remain dim (depending on battery charge)................ a quick trip to an auto elec will determine if the output of the generator and also the condition of the battery as suspect - they will do it for you in probably less than two minutes - I don't know if you have or know how to use a multi-meter - if so........

With the engine stopped and ignition off turn the multimeter to DC volts.

Connect the red and black leads of the multimeter to the pos and neg terminals of your battery (only do this with the multi meter in volts DC scale where 12 is somewhere between).
Read the voltage of the battery whilst engine stopped and all other switches, radio, lights etc off - it should be somewhere around 12v.

Remove one of the multimeter leads (usually the red - positive one), start the engine and allow it to idle - go back under the bonnet and connect the multimeter lead again - it will probably show less than when stopped (current draw for the coil, fuel gauge and a few other small currents).

Now with leads connected and meter reading the battery voltages, rev the motor a little - you should see the multimeter jump to somewhere around 13.5 - 14.5 volts - this proves the generator output and the voltage regulator to be working.

Do NOT be tempted to connect your multimeter between the generator and voltage regulator - multi-meters (general use ones) are not designed to cope with any DC amperage above 500 milli-amps (at best, some are as low as 300 mA ((thousands of an amp)) ).......

If the generator/voltage regulator is providing good output and your battery voltage rises, we probably need to check the battery.

You can test the battery with a hydrometer - but many modern batteries are either "sealed" or minimum maintenance types (generally throw away when spent) and do not afford provision for using a hydrfomeer.
A hydrometer checks the specific gravity of each cell - but you must be able to inset the rubber tip of the instrument into each 2 volt cell to get a reading.....................readings will differ when the battery is either cold, hot, charged or in use................ follow the instructions............... auto elect will do all of this if they are thorough.

One further problem you may experience is often an assumption that the batter cannot hold its "charge"................ we need to find out if there is an electrical "leak" when everything is switched off...................
To do this check, I use a small piece of home made test equipment - a globe and two thin lengths of insulated wire.
Solder each one of these leads to the contact and body of a 12 volt globe - an indicator globe is fine.
To test......
Disconnect your battery positive lead from the battery, with this disconnected, connect one of the test leads to the battery positive terminal and the other to the lead to the starter solenoid (the one you just removed) - if there is any "leak" the globe will light up - the brighter the globe = the greater the leak............. can be a clock, interior light (glove-box, boot etc) alarm system or more probably the "aux" wire to your audio system for retraining radio station and pre-amplifier presets.

To find a leak is a process of elimination, disconnect fuses, appliances etc until the globe extinguishes - you'll find it, but it will take a bit of patience.
Write everything down and keep it with your logbook.........you have started one, haven't you?

Again Cam, I'd drop into an auto elec - ask them if they can do a quick check of your charging circuit and check the battery.

Of course, most people experience battery failure after an overnight frost - I feel you may get one or two of those in Tas......? I know we are beginning to get them here (just that they sometimes take all morning to thaw) ............ I want to go back to Yamba for a few months......... we were recently in shorts and "t" shirts - just last week in fact.............

Hope some of this helps, Cam...................

frats,
Rosco

paroharo · Post by **paroharo** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 11:58 am

I've only been on the forum for a few months, but surely that's gotta be a record for longest post Rosco?

rosco · Post by **rosco** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 7:32 pm

Guess I've blown my cover - paroharo.......?

frats,
Rosco

camstuart52 · Post by **camstuart52** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:20 pm

A record for Rosco that is not, but it is certainly a long reply for on here it is......always full of knowledge and always willing to share.....

I will certainly have a look into all that......will answer all my problems I'm sure!!!

I have purchased lowering blocks and lowered springs and i'm waiting for them to arrive. Would love to have a go at doing this myself......hahahahaha.....famous last words!!!

I am going to stick with the 138 for a while because its not a bad motor and its still going, so if it aint broke dont fix it!!! Going to order some flappers soon also, but thinking about painting the rims red....what do you think rosco, or anyone else, what other colour might look good, you can see the colour of the car....please any ideas would be great!!!

I will let you know how i go with the battery/generator scenario rosco......geez i wish i lived on the mainland, so many more people from the forum there to get help from, or catch up with!!!

oldnek · Post by **oldnek** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:55 am

rosco wrote:Hi Cam,
long time since we chatted..................
You may have read recently (this past week!) that the yamba nats have revealed a number of people suffering generator related issues.
Sam Crupi suffered from worn gen brushes, Richard (Esme) a spent armature and MiniFBvan two broken generator brackets - seems you might be joining the folly?

Better add me to that list Rosco, burnt out armature on a 55amp Alternator, that was only 4 years old.
Lucky I had a good battery, lasted from Olympic Stadium Homebush to Oyster Bay Sutherland, in peak hour and dark. I was lucky it wasn't raining.....or would've been up the creek.

paroharo · Post by **paroharo** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:58 pm

Good to hear you're sticking with the grey!
Red would be a good choice for the wheels, esp. with whitewalls.

camstuart52 · Post by **camstuart52** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:05 pm

Yeah decided to stick with it for now, as i cant really afford to change it at the moment.....hahahahaha

Yeah red does seem the obvious choice, but that was also why i wasnt sure!!! Looking forward to seeing it lowered though, and the white walls will make a big difference!!!

camstuart52 · Post by **camstuart52** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 10:04 am

Well Rosco,

The battery was stuffed, but that doesnt appear to be the main cause of the problem. I have replaced the battery and when i go to turn the key, it slow ticks over, like it still has a flat battery. It keeps doing this and i turn the ignition off and go again, and then the same again....eventually it will give a big enough push and it starts.......any ideas???

Cant be the battery!!! HELP

Post by **Blacky** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 10:27 am

Sounds like a loose terminal or a crook connection to me- either that or the starter motor is on its last legs. Check all your battery leads are tight and the terminations are clean. Is the negative lead bolted to the motor or the body ? It should be on the motor.

camstuart52 · Post by **camstuart52** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 11:36 am

I have checked the terminals and they are clean and are all connected to the correct places and secure. Maybe the starter motor is on its way out!!! What would be the relacement cost of this???

oldnek · Post by **oldnek** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:00 pm

Cam,
Try these few things

Turn your headlights on at the same time you try and start it,
are they going dim............... if they are, you have a power prob.
If not, Starter or igniton switch. Illiminate that one by shorting a wire across the main terminal ( battery lead) and start wire on the solenoid (blue one or violet for memory)
Hope this helps you out.

Regards John

camstuart52 · Post by **camstuart52** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:58 pm

Lights did dim slightly when i had the lights on and started, but wasnt a huge dimming.......just a small amount!!!

So you think that this does point to an electrical problem. Even when the car has been driven and i stop for 10 minutes and go back, the car then sounds like it has a flat battery, but will eventually start, not really a consistent time for how long it takes.

So i dont know!!!

FB MAD · Post by **FB MAD** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 6:24 pm

I wonder if the starter motor bushes are worn and it's "poling"...John??

Can give a similar effect to having a flat battery.

Do what John/Blacky has just suggested

and/or try another starter motor that you know does work.

camstuart52 · Post by **camstuart52** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 6:29 pm

I spoke to my mechanic today and explained the issue and that was his thoughts also......if this is the case whats the way to fix it, replacement starter motor??? We are going to look into it!!!

Also my break lights arent working..........but light up when the park lights are turned on, is this the break switch or something else???

FB MAD · Post by **FB MAD** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 6:37 pm

It is sometimes possible to be able to put a twin filament bulb into a socket the wrong way so that the thinner,smaller wattage park light filament will light up when brakes are applied and the larger,higher wattage filament to light up when the park lights are switched on.

So this actually gives you very bright tailights and duller brake lights.

I know it's possible as I have done it myself

and have seen it done on other cars as well over the years.

This may not be your problem but doesn't take much time to check.