Rosco,
Good to hear from you.
Why don't you just put the narrower torana diff housing in it and solve the problem.
Dragway wheels to an EK
dragway wheel to an EK
Malcolm W.
replies
Thanks everyone for the encouragement......
Nothing much in this post - just answers, had a lot of other stuff on today and didn't get into the garage......
EKSPCL - I would love to see pictures of your rolled lips (car only please....).
If it can be done - I will be doing it, this old bus is my pride and joy, I very rarely ever let anyone else do anything on it - this is the discipline I have adopted in all my cars - and, come to think of it.... just about every thing else in life - heaven forbid I should "lose all my marbles...... there's quite a few rolling around loose in there, but euthanasia is probably the kindest thing I could ask for when I just can't do things myself........
To other people on the forum..... although I started this thread, please feel absolutely welcome to post pictures of how you have succeeded to achieve fitting these wheels...... I would really appreciate as much detail and procedure as possible - at this point in time, it would appear that I will go ahead with this project - I am back at Dragway tomorrow armed with a mountain of info, pictures and measurements...... I hope he's not too busy.... in two minds (sic) as to whether to telephone first.... if he knows I'm coming he may bolt.........
RB - by all means blaze away - I will investigate anything that people put up and I do very much appreciate your honesty, Mick.....
As I posted, I am only going to state and demonstrate what I have found with my old bus...... I fully acknowledge that there are many, many of our models running quite happily with the "revised" wheel - but as you can see by my measurements and pictures...... it isn't going to happen on my old bus......
Now today's update - have given many different and "lateral" ideas some time to "gel"...... what I will consider and calculate when the "din" of the days proceedings ebbs away will be mainly the tyre profile - what the rolling diameter of anticipated 14" tyres will be and how high they will sit on the rim ........ at this point in time I will opt for the 14 x 7 wheels - not 100% sure of the tie rod end and upper ball joint proximities yet - it is absolutely line ball - there wouldn't be a matchstick in it - but.......
I have a cunning plan - back in the '80"s when I did the upgrade, I managed to purchase the last four LJ GTR-XU1 front wheel spacers - they are in my shed and still have the part numbers in crayon marked on them..... I will measure the thickness - I was told at the time I could run a maximum of two - hence why I got the four - I would have taken more, but this was it...... Preston Motors - Nunuawading, now long gone......
This will afford me the matchstick and a bit of both sides if I need them - I do not want to grind away the outer casing edge of the ball joint....... or run with the sealing boot of the tie rod end missing........
14 x 7's... yes, sorry a little diversion - back on the wheels - this is the size I feel will offer the best alternative - both in being suitable to rotate the wheels and also provide some "spread" to the proposed 205's..... what I need to now do is sit down (or lay) and do the math on percentages........ the second figure (behind the backslash) states the height of the tyre as a percentage of its width -
eg - 205/70 14 has a height from rim of 143.5 mm (205 x 70%)
(not rolling, but static - the reason I am working with static is because we are now concerned with the unloaded dimension of the tyre - the top of it)
205/60 x 14 equates to 123 mm
205/50 x 14 ditto 102.5 mm
So, as you can now see from the models above, the difference in height of the tyre as it sits on the rim between a 205/70R 14 and a 205/50R 14 is a hefty 41 mm....... that is 1 5/8".
I have a suspension travel of 4" (ride height to bump stop)
My clearance issue becomes apparent from 1 1/2" at the lip and nearly 3" from the inner guard........
Depending on what tyre I have fitted.... will determine just how much "bashing" I will need to effect in MY application.....
The lips issue is well and truly dusted - they must be "rolled" to go ahead with this project......
The inner guards I do not want to touch - and if a suitable tyre profile can be found - it will unfortunately probably take precedence over maker......
The next equation is to determine the overall rolling diameter - I would dearly like to achieve an accurate speedometer/odometer - I am yet to obtain what the rolling diameter of our original 6.40 x 13" cross-plies were - if this can be mirrored using the larger wheel and lower profile tyre - it will probably lend itself to the calculation.......
I know my current 185/70 x 13 B'stone "Turanza" tyres are "out" by approximately 6 mph at 60 mph = 10% (using GPS and Navman) - the reading is high - a 10% larger rolling daimeter (or should it be radius?) should bring these back into specification....... we'll see - told you at the start of this thread it was going to be never-ending!.......
Speaking of which..........
- this was a "reply" post....... sorry - just about to sign out for the night ..... should have some more after discussions with Dragway......
Thankyou to all for your comments and help - I'm sure others will benefit from what we are trying to achieve in this........
frats,
Rosco
Nothing much in this post - just answers, had a lot of other stuff on today and didn't get into the garage......
EKSPCL - I would love to see pictures of your rolled lips (car only please....).
If it can be done - I will be doing it, this old bus is my pride and joy, I very rarely ever let anyone else do anything on it - this is the discipline I have adopted in all my cars - and, come to think of it.... just about every thing else in life - heaven forbid I should "lose all my marbles...... there's quite a few rolling around loose in there, but euthanasia is probably the kindest thing I could ask for when I just can't do things myself........
To other people on the forum..... although I started this thread, please feel absolutely welcome to post pictures of how you have succeeded to achieve fitting these wheels...... I would really appreciate as much detail and procedure as possible - at this point in time, it would appear that I will go ahead with this project - I am back at Dragway tomorrow armed with a mountain of info, pictures and measurements...... I hope he's not too busy.... in two minds (sic) as to whether to telephone first.... if he knows I'm coming he may bolt.........
RB - by all means blaze away - I will investigate anything that people put up and I do very much appreciate your honesty, Mick.....
As I posted, I am only going to state and demonstrate what I have found with my old bus...... I fully acknowledge that there are many, many of our models running quite happily with the "revised" wheel - but as you can see by my measurements and pictures...... it isn't going to happen on my old bus......
Now today's update - have given many different and "lateral" ideas some time to "gel"...... what I will consider and calculate when the "din" of the days proceedings ebbs away will be mainly the tyre profile - what the rolling diameter of anticipated 14" tyres will be and how high they will sit on the rim ........ at this point in time I will opt for the 14 x 7 wheels - not 100% sure of the tie rod end and upper ball joint proximities yet - it is absolutely line ball - there wouldn't be a matchstick in it - but.......
I have a cunning plan - back in the '80"s when I did the upgrade, I managed to purchase the last four LJ GTR-XU1 front wheel spacers - they are in my shed and still have the part numbers in crayon marked on them..... I will measure the thickness - I was told at the time I could run a maximum of two - hence why I got the four - I would have taken more, but this was it...... Preston Motors - Nunuawading, now long gone......
This will afford me the matchstick and a bit of both sides if I need them - I do not want to grind away the outer casing edge of the ball joint....... or run with the sealing boot of the tie rod end missing........
14 x 7's... yes, sorry a little diversion - back on the wheels - this is the size I feel will offer the best alternative - both in being suitable to rotate the wheels and also provide some "spread" to the proposed 205's..... what I need to now do is sit down (or lay) and do the math on percentages........ the second figure (behind the backslash) states the height of the tyre as a percentage of its width -
eg - 205/70 14 has a height from rim of 143.5 mm (205 x 70%)
(not rolling, but static - the reason I am working with static is because we are now concerned with the unloaded dimension of the tyre - the top of it)
205/60 x 14 equates to 123 mm
205/50 x 14 ditto 102.5 mm
So, as you can now see from the models above, the difference in height of the tyre as it sits on the rim between a 205/70R 14 and a 205/50R 14 is a hefty 41 mm....... that is 1 5/8".
I have a suspension travel of 4" (ride height to bump stop)
My clearance issue becomes apparent from 1 1/2" at the lip and nearly 3" from the inner guard........
Depending on what tyre I have fitted.... will determine just how much "bashing" I will need to effect in MY application.....
The lips issue is well and truly dusted - they must be "rolled" to go ahead with this project......
The inner guards I do not want to touch - and if a suitable tyre profile can be found - it will unfortunately probably take precedence over maker......
The next equation is to determine the overall rolling diameter - I would dearly like to achieve an accurate speedometer/odometer - I am yet to obtain what the rolling diameter of our original 6.40 x 13" cross-plies were - if this can be mirrored using the larger wheel and lower profile tyre - it will probably lend itself to the calculation.......
I know my current 185/70 x 13 B'stone "Turanza" tyres are "out" by approximately 6 mph at 60 mph = 10% (using GPS and Navman) - the reading is high - a 10% larger rolling daimeter (or should it be radius?) should bring these back into specification....... we'll see - told you at the start of this thread it was going to be never-ending!.......
Speaking of which..........
- this was a "reply" post....... sorry - just about to sign out for the night ..... should have some more after discussions with Dragway......
Thankyou to all for your comments and help - I'm sure others will benefit from what we are trying to achieve in this........
frats,
Rosco
Last edited by rosco on Sun Oct 05, 2008 8:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Malcolm
Hi Malcolm,
sorry I haven't replied to much on the forum..... you'll come to learn I go a bit quiet over winter - I've been watching, just not putting stuff up.....
Answer.... good suggestion - I have "butchered" so much of my beloved old busl, I won't want to go any further than the finishing touch of wheels...... it may still get shelved..... I haven't committed (although i should be) to actually doing anything yet......
I have had some deep discussions with the chap (systems engineer) who will be walking me through the FJ ute project (18 months away) and it is at his suggestion I will in fact go to HR rear housing - to keep both front and rear in model parallel...... although we know the specs for all up to HR were almost identical...... I would like to keep him happy - the FJ is going to be a nightmare on Elm St - once I start on it - I won't be happy if it isn't done right........
Oops..... this is a post, not a PM.... sorry everyone......
Short answer, Malcolm..... yes, did think along that line - but it got gazzupped at an engineering level........ although legal, just not "preferred"....... hope this makes sense....?
frats,
Rosco
sorry I haven't replied to much on the forum..... you'll come to learn I go a bit quiet over winter - I've been watching, just not putting stuff up.....
Answer.... good suggestion - I have "butchered" so much of my beloved old busl, I won't want to go any further than the finishing touch of wheels...... it may still get shelved..... I haven't committed (although i should be) to actually doing anything yet......
I have had some deep discussions with the chap (systems engineer) who will be walking me through the FJ ute project (18 months away) and it is at his suggestion I will in fact go to HR rear housing - to keep both front and rear in model parallel...... although we know the specs for all up to HR were almost identical...... I would like to keep him happy - the FJ is going to be a nightmare on Elm St - once I start on it - I won't be happy if it isn't done right........
Oops..... this is a post, not a PM.... sorry everyone......
Short answer, Malcolm..... yes, did think along that line - but it got gazzupped at an engineering level........ although legal, just not "preferred"....... hope this makes sense....?
frats,
Rosco
Rosco there was a guy by the name of Gav who used to do on site gaurd lip rollng for all the ricer boys. No paint damage 99% off the time!! Don't know how, but he was obviously patient and took great care. I can't for the life of me find any details or know if he still does it. But an email to a common friend tomorrow will solve that.
Speed and Style........... One day I'll get the speed bit.
rolling
I'm absolutely no tool maker - but have managed to "invent" various little necessities when backed into a corner (or guard lip).....
I spent a nano second in fantasy about fabricating some type of tool for the rolling job today....... something like a pair of "puckerers" - if that's what you would call them...... but constructed from a high tensile nut with bolt welded in and slitted at the thickness of the lip....... nut hexes ground off to a smooth curve to fit the outer curved edge of the exterior.
A suitable length handle to effect leverage....... still playing with that...
I pondered on using a short length of steel "dowel" in behind the "roll" to avoid pushing out the outer guard in the process......still playing with all this in my head...... you'd think I had two minds - one keeps debating with the other......guess we're all a bit "funny".......?
Where I'm in the dark murky stuff is with the paint I used when spraying the rear end of the car...... it is done in an acrylic system called "Aultra-cryl".... great finish, but one tap - and your in primer............ the rest is done in Standox...... and I have just learned that is no longer available in acrylic - damn, damn, damn........ just getting a feel for it - boot interior, roof and a whole bunch of other little "fiddly bits".......done it again, haven't I..... gotta get off this machine.....
Goodnight all.......
frats,
Rosco
I spent a nano second in fantasy about fabricating some type of tool for the rolling job today....... something like a pair of "puckerers" - if that's what you would call them...... but constructed from a high tensile nut with bolt welded in and slitted at the thickness of the lip....... nut hexes ground off to a smooth curve to fit the outer curved edge of the exterior.
A suitable length handle to effect leverage....... still playing with that...
I pondered on using a short length of steel "dowel" in behind the "roll" to avoid pushing out the outer guard in the process......still playing with all this in my head...... you'd think I had two minds - one keeps debating with the other......guess we're all a bit "funny".......?
Where I'm in the dark murky stuff is with the paint I used when spraying the rear end of the car...... it is done in an acrylic system called "Aultra-cryl".... great finish, but one tap - and your in primer............ the rest is done in Standox...... and I have just learned that is no longer available in acrylic - damn, damn, damn........ just getting a feel for it - boot interior, roof and a whole bunch of other little "fiddly bits".......done it again, haven't I..... gotta get off this machine.....
Goodnight all.......
frats,
Rosco
update
Hi all,
no novel today.... just an update.....
Wheels ordered five (5) 14 x 7 "new" style with "special" machining ......
Big post coming - front end was a nightmare - don't know how blokes have fitted 13 x 7 to HR fronts........
pictures coming - and something to "tuck" away for future reference.......
frats,
Rosco
no novel today.... just an update.....
Wheels ordered five (5) 14 x 7 "new" style with "special" machining ......
Big post coming - front end was a nightmare - don't know how blokes have fitted 13 x 7 to HR fronts........
pictures coming - and something to "tuck" away for future reference.......
frats,
Rosco
done
Just got "the" call from Dragway - wheels are ready ........
I'm a bit like a kid before Christmas - tomorrow cannot come quickly enough.........
frats,
Rosco
ps - you won't be getting many posts from me for a while...... got some work to do with POR Glisten PC........
I'm a bit like a kid before Christmas - tomorrow cannot come quickly enough.........
frats,
Rosco
ps - you won't be getting many posts from me for a while...... got some work to do with POR Glisten PC........
What Dee said, how are the new wheels going?
-
ipg
