Neils Frankenstein Ute

[FireKraka]

I have been toying with doing an upgrade on Frank or maybe installing on the wagon when I get to it.
Purchased a tear independent suspension cradle from V6 Conversions and a VE V6 2.92 complete rear suspension setup to go into the cradle.
It bolts into the existing spring hanger mounts.
Haven't received the cradle yet so if it interferes with to much already under Frank I will install it on the wagon.

Independent Rear.jpg (59.8 KiB) Viewed 1063 times

Independent Rear End with Diff fitted.jpg (49.14 KiB) Viewed 1063 times

[Blacky]

That looks sexy , what is the width of it wheel face to wheel face ???

[Errol62]

Wow, that is cool Neil. Was wondering if someone was using the Commodore IRS in early Holdens.

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[FireKraka]

Hey guys, yes I'm hoping that it goes in fairly easy, Pat at V6 Conversions says you have to cut a bit out above it allow for the upper arms and as you asked Blacky concern is wheel track, he tells me it should be the same as I have now the concern is that he says SHOULD
My VE suspension arrived yesterday from a mob in SA Clay I will measure face to face on the new suspension and just see how wide it is.
Will post up the findings and hope it is going to work, at $4400 + freight this better work and it is the most I think I've ever outlaid, I would like his independent front end as well which allows me to use the original sump but at $5100 I'll have to save up and probably sell some of my stash or parts to keep the boss happy

[FireKraka]

Just Googled rear wheel track for VE and it comes up with 1608 - 1618mm so this is a fair bit wider than what Frank is which is roughly 1400mm from memory so I think I better ask some questions

[Harv]

You may get away with an increased track, depending on the engineers view and any specific state laws.

The NCOP guidance is relative to the original vehicle model (i.e. FB/EK track + 1").

The NSW light vehicle modification guidance is relative to the axle used (e.g. "Where non- original axle or suspension components are fitted, the offset of the wheel in relation to the axle or stub axle assembly used shall not be increased by more than 12.5mm each side of the vehicle based on the specifications of the axle components used"). The NSW rules will thus let me run wider track provided I meet the VE Commie specs.

Measure, check with engineer, purchase.

Cheers,
Harv

[Errol62]

54 1/2"+25mm=1409.3mm maximum according to NCOP rules Neil.

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[Harv]

You may get some wiggle room from offset too. VE wheels were 8" wide by +48mm offset (the HSV wheels were 9.5" wide by +57mm offset). By running the 26P wheels off earlier Conformadores (wary of stud size and bore) you can pull track in by 44mm. A little more maybe with custom wheels.

Cheers,
Harv

[gpi]

the beauty is that it doesnt need to be engineered under ncop because it uses the factory mounts

when you bolt on the bits from the stock ve setup it will shorten to hr holden width using the shortened axles v6conversions supplies

[Harv]

the beauty is that it doesnt need to be engineered under ncop because it uses the factory mounts

I'm not sure that is right.

1.1 BASIC MODIFICATIONS NOT REQUIRING CERTIFICATION
The following modifications may be performed without certification if they are carried out in accordance with sub-section 2 General Requirements and the total change in vehicle height resulting from all modifications performed, does not exceed 50mm.
Note: In NSW, although vehicles whose height has been changed up to 50mm do not require certification by an engineering signatory, the registration authority must be notified of the modification.
 Tyre and rim substitution carried out within the limits specified in this Section;
 Lowering and raising suspensions (by not more than one third of the original suspension travel provided the original vehicle height is not increased or decreased by more than 50mm);
 Raising the vehicle with a body lift kit provided the original vehicle height is not increased by more than 50mm (refer to sub-section 4.11 for conditions and limitations);
 Shock absorber substitution;
 Spring and sway bar substitution;
 Track rod and strut brace installation;
 Steering wheel substitution (refer to sub-section 4.9 of this Section); and
 Power steering (manufacturer’s option) conversion.

1.2 MODIFICATIONS REQUIRING CERTIFICATION UNDER SECTION LS
The following modifications require certification under the LS Codes;
 Left to right hand drive steering conversions;
Steering and suspension modifications;
 Power steering (non-standard) conversion;
 Rack and pinion steering conversion;
 Suspension strut or upright substitution;
 Rear axle substitution; and
 Raising the vehicle beyond 50mm but not more than 150mm.

Code LS6 covers the mod:

MODIFICATIONS COVERED UNDER CODE LS6
The following is a summary of the modifications that may be performed under Code LS6:
 Rear beam axle modifications including shortening, differential and axle substitution and revised location arms, rods, bearings, bushes and mountings;
 Independent rear suspension modifications using different struts, trailing arms or uprights;
 Conversions using a complete suspension assembly from a different vehicle model;and
 Fabrication and installation of complete rear suspension assemblies using components from different vehicle model(s).

Cheers,
Harv

[Mick]

there was a gold sedan at Mudgee nationals with one in it, quite a bit cut out, and sat quite high, from memory it had wire spoke wheels on it which were a very tight fit

[FireKraka]

Thanks for all the comments guys I've put the deposit down and purchased the donor rear so will just go with it and see where it ends up.
The engineers report that comes with the cradle says max 1400mm wheel track if that is the case then I should be all good.
Looking back a bit closer at the photos that were sent I can see that the upper control arms come in a lot closer than the VE rear and they send shortened other arms that look like they bring it all in my only concern is the axles but I will talk to them about it.
You can see how much if you compare the photos.
V6 Conversion Rear end

Independent Rear End with Diff fitted.jpg (49.14 KiB) Viewed 931 times

VE Rear End

IMG_1398.jpg (2.87 MiB) Viewed 931 times

Scored cross drilled rotors

IMG_1399.jpg (2.58 MiB) Viewed 931 times

Spoke to my engineer he seems to think it will be ok, if I fit it to Frank then I would have to submit and application to amend the approval that I already have if I fit it to the wagon project then I will submit it as part of the build application.

The engineer told me that I probably should have submitted an application for the VT twin piston caliper upgrade I did to the front as well

[Errol62]

Looking good mate. Looks like the rodtech arms are similar length but pivot points have been brought in toward the centre?


FB ute fixer upper, EK van on rotisserie

[FireKraka]

That's what I'm seeing too Clay
I'vwe spoken to V6 Conversions on a couple of occasions now, 1 I wanted them to send me the fitting instructions so I could prep what I need to do and 2 I asked about axles but on both occasions I don't really get much back which in all the time I've dealt with them is pretty normal

[EK283]

Its funny all this stuff, 2020 and still no one knows whats going on ??????????????? Relating to the NCOP.

I had a detailed chat to the engineer I have just used about tubs and 4 links. Do i need a beam test ? He says no !!!

So I walked out even more confused ! I know one thing and that is the armchair engineers should never be listeened to, more than likely they are all just BS,

My recomendation is ask first then cut and grind like a madman after that !!!!! It is however very difficult to engage an engineer because they are flat out and like most who are good at their given trade, usually hopeless in communication and or business mansgement skills. There is also the wanker element to contend with, so I feel for them in some ways.

If I ever do this again, I will meet personally with a plan and get it all in writing then go from there.
As for the parts manufacturing business I guess its the same, phone ringing off its nut, 500 unread emails, to busy making stuff and no time for customer service.

Part of the wild west we live in !!!

Regards Greg