No brakes

[EKjimmy]

Hi all,
Having a little problem with my good old drum brakes on the EK.
I've just had all 4 slave cyl's resleeved and rekitted (and zinc plated too looks brand new). After flushing the brake lines with metho, boiling the shoes, installing high quality new flexible hoses, rekitting the master cylinder, adjusting the slaves, filling the lines and bleeding via each slave - there is still no feel at the pedal, just goes to the floor making no attempt to actually brake.
The master and slaves were all on the car when it was adopted, and it stopped...fairly well even though the rear slaves each had the rear piston pretty much seized in place and there is a bit of a squished spot in the hard line running to the LHR cylinder.
It's got me a little stumped, it's probably something simple but everything was done properly so it should be fine. Dad and I have been using a vacuum bleeder and fluid is coming through and we think we got rid of all the air in the lines. The pedal is near the end of its adjustment as it was when we got the car.
I'm 99% sure the master went back together the way it is meant to, but it's the only thing I can think of that could be wrong. Has anyone else had a similar problem, and could the system just need further bleeding and adjustment at the slave cyl's?
If anyone has any clues, it would be great to hear them.
Thanks, Jimmy

[Devilrod]

Undo the line at the master cylinder then push the pedal for a start to see if you have fluid coming through. If you do then work your way through the rest.

[Aussie Bob]

Two important things to consider.

1. Did you change the three flexible brake hoses? If you didn't I would.

2. Did you put the "Tea Strainer" in the brake Master Cylinder?

If you mixed the clutch and brake master cylinders up (and they have the right components in them), you wont get much of a pedal on the brake, although, you will get a hard pedal with the clutch.

Steve

[stinky]

I heard somewhere that you have to "bench bleed" the master cylinders before install apparently it is easier to bleed them while out of the car, worth looking into anyway. I probably saw it on the FE/FC Forum so try a search over there.
Also, not sure if this would apply but, I was bleeding the clutch on a modern car and could not get the feel right after 20 mins of bleeding it ended up I was pushing the pedal too slow to get the air out. A few quicker pumps of the pedal and 2 minutes later the clutch was perfect. HTH.

[Mick]

have you done what stinky said bench bleed, put cylinder in vice fill with fluid use screwdriver or simular to push piston in (as the break pedal would push) hold finger over fluid outlet when releasing piston (to stop sucking air back in) repeat till you get a good flow of fluid
also (which you probably have done) check all yor joints on the lines are tight

[Rusty EK]

x3 , sounds like the master cylinder , really need to bleed these good before connecting , had the same trouble with mine last week .

To save pulling it back out of car to bench bleed , if you have an old piece of brake line ? fit to master cylinder and run it into a glass jar half full of fluid , pump the pedal and you will see all the air come out into the jar and it wont be able to suck air back in , just have to keep pumping until no more air comes out and reconnect.

Then just re bleed everything .

[Aussie Bob]

Thing is, if you have fluid coming out (as I read it) then the master should be ok, for memory, its when you get no fluid coming out at all you need to bleed the master?

I just re read you had placed new hoses

Steve

[Rusty EK]

He is pulling fluid through under vacume ? But when the pedal is depressed it is going to the floor , to me it sounds like it is not pumping fluid , which makes me think the master cylinder , if he tests the master cyl and is sure it is working , that can be ruled out as the cause and you know that it has been put back together right .

For me trouble shooting is starting at the source and working your way through .

[Aussie Bob]

Agree!

[roto]

G'day EK Jimmy,
You said "the pedal is near the end of its adjustment as it was when we got the car".You need to back the pedal pushrod off so there is clearance between the pushrod and the master cylinder.
I'm pretty sure this will fix your problem
Regards roto

[EKjimmy]

Thanks for all the advice guys. I had another crack this arvo - took out the master cyl, checked the seals and pistons were installed properly and they were. bench bled it and it was fine, put it back in the car (hard line to master was also full to the brim with fluid).
Pushed the pedal...to the floor...again. and as it released it started pushing bubbles through the reservoir so my guess is there is an air leak.
Bled every slave again starting at the longest circuit (NSR) working through to shortest (OSF) and it still had the same problem.
Could not find any leaks or wet spots anywhere, every joint is done up firmly including the distribution blocks front and rear.
Bleeder nipples are done up nice and tight so shouldn't be letting air in,and if they were there would be an obvious leak.
All i can think of is that maybe one of the hard lines has somehow split? Although they were fine before the slaves were carefully removed for resleeving.
Roto, i'll give your suggestion a go tomorrow.
Thanks again everyone, hopefully between us all we can make a complete brain and figure this out
Jimmy

[Rusty EK]

To me , it still sounds like there is air in your master , when you release it the little air bubbles .

How did you bench bleed it ?

[EKjimmy]

I had it set up in the vice, capped the outlet with an old bit of brake line with a proper fitting, filled with fluid and pumped the piston in and out with the cap off the reservoir.
I could try bleeding it with some hose going from the outlet into a jar of fluid so there's no way air could get in?

[Rusty EK]

Leave the outlet open and put the tube back into the top of the master cylinder or into a jar with fluid .

When you pump it you should have fluid pumping into the jar and emptying the cylinder or pumping back into the cylinder ? Depending on which way you go .

You have to make sure that the end of the tube is under the fluid or everytime you pump you will suck air back in also , make sure it is pumping fluid and no more air is coming out .

Wouldnt hurt to give it a couple of gentle taps on the side to dislodge any air sitting in there also , if it is pumping fluid and no air bubbles are coming out , chuck it back in and see what happens .